Pen licence - Year 3

[whatk8ydid]

Morning all, was hoping to get a hive mind view on this - particularly from either primary school teachers or those with primary age children.

My 7 year old is in Year 3. His school apparently have "pen licences" - which I'd never heard of before. When their writing is deemed "neat enough" by whatever subjective criteria they use, they are given a pen licence and are allowed to use pen instead of pencil to write with.

He, and quite a few others in his class, feel quite disheartened and "not good enough". I think about a fifth have a pen licence so far.

DS is normally a pretty robust little thing, it's not often his injustice mode is activated but he's really quite sad about this. Last week I decided the whole pen thing was bloody nonsense, sent him in with a pen and wrote a note in his reading diary saying that as he is left handed, he finds it easier and neater to write with a pen rather than a pencil and as such had sent him in with one, and to contact me if there were any issues with this.

Yesterday, I received an email from his teacher - 7 paragraphs of clearly AI formulated text which didn't actually address any of the issues or explain what he is doing with a pencil that can't be done with a pen, or what objective rather than subjective criteria needs to be met. This has annoyed me further. Everything I've read online says that pen licenses are outdated, aren't part of the curriculum, and put dyspraxic/left handed children at a disadvantage as they end up having less time to practice writing with a pen in comparison to their peers.

I think as far as parents go, we have pretty easy to meet expectations. There have been a few annoyances along the way but we've broadly speaking let them go - as in we're not those parents that are emailing once a week, or catching the teacher "just quickly" at the end of the day (and delaying everyone else by doing so). I've approached it from a trust the school to do their job, and we'll do ours at home sort of way. So I'm not sure whether this is just the straw that broke the camels back and that's why it feels such a big issue. I could do with a bit of a sense check on how hard to push on this one issue.

Apologies in advance - I'm at work today so may not be able to keep up with the thread in real time.

YABU - let the school do what works for them and don't interfere

YANBU - nothing changes if nobody challenges systems that are outdated and no longer fit for purpose

Pen licenses are bollocks and a particular bug bear of mine. My daughter got one at the end of year 3 after loads of hard work on her handwriting. Then what did they do in year 4, decide that everyone had to earn them back again. Needless to say I complained and she was given a pen.

I never received a pen licence, alas at work in my professional capacity I'm still having to write in pencil.

I am not sure people to need to write beyond education. I hurt my right hand 30 years ago and have typed ever since. For forms don't most people use block capitals.

Wtaf is a pen licence? Never experienced this either myself going through school or
my 2 children.

Whilst the concept sounds like a lot of shite I don’t think I’d be too annoyed at them not getting to use a pen. The email of AI generated slop would however be getting
a snotty response.

This is a hill I would die on! It’s outdated and puts unnecessary pressure on children. It’s awful for those kids with additional needs and left handed children. I’m a fairly relaxed parent but I hate pen licences and other silly little progress rewards. Just give them all a pen or all a pencil!

No my dd is resilient but this became a massive deal in year 5 if you didn’t have it there was a certain judgement from other kids. Best bit is the second they hit secondary school you use a pen and that’s it.

To me from year 3 we should be helping children by getting them to use normal ballpoint pens in English. Learning to neatly cross out mistakes.

The school I work at does this. Year 3 here’s your pen. Makes sense.

I never got my pen licence 😂 I didn't care I'm left handed so my writings pretty messy 😂

Complain about their use of AI! What hope is there for the world when a teacher can’t construct simple sentences themselves? 🤦‍♀️

The teacher's letter is correct about teaching handwriting. Not sure why that can't be with a pen though. (Bic pens are similar to those yellow and black pencils in shape)

DD never got a pen license. She had to use a pen for the first time in secondary. They didn't even give it for the last week.

Some schools can be rigid in their rules. (They won't get a reading book until they can read all these words, but she could read them and spell them, (though not write them neatly yet!!) still couldn't have a book, then had to read every book in the scheme) They wouldn't adapt to her disability either. Nor ds's

Try and teach your kiddo a bit of resilience and self belief and not worry too much about these things without being disruptive. (You might not be able to change them) You can write to school about the effect this is having on him though. They do need to know the effects of their systems on small children.

I’m not sure we had a pen licence. Was just told for yr 3 to have a handwriting pen in with the usual pencils rubber ruler etc

I don’t rem mini blondes (now yr 5) saying she had gained it

they just used the pens

she was more thrilled to have a purple pen of power 😂

we all have these

https://amzn.eu/d/02qI1IAk

@whatk8ydid yabu. If you wanted to challenge this you should have approached the teacher, not sent your child in with a pen and a note. That was inevitably just going to make it harder for your child when the pen was removed. I notice you didn't describe what happened there.

You might not like the policy, but school policies need to be followed whether you like them or not. You need to find a way to challenge it like a grown up, without undermining the teacher and treating her with disrespect. Good schools protect their staff from parental bullying, which is what this is.

None of my dc fot their pen license. They got given a pen start yr 4.
I just encouraged them to keep practising their writing and reminding them of all the things they were good at.

The email is perfectly correct and you have no evidence that it was generated by AI.

Dyspraxic writers are not necessarily disadvantaged by mandatory pencils and left-handedness does not directly correlate to dyspraxia. Some children need the additional haptic feedback of the friction of the graphite against the paper while they are learning to write fluently. It is hyper mobile children who tend to find this more difficult, as the pressure needed to write with a pencil is very fatiguing on hyper mobile finger joints. The paediatrician or occupational therapist should have given advice on this when your DS was diagnosed.

Hard disagree.

I'm sorry to hear you can't write yourself, but for most people, it's an important and very worthwhile skill. It's not something we should dismiss as being unimportant simply because it's possible to live without it. It's possible to live without walking - that doesn't mean it's not worth learning.

Lots of professions require you to be able to scribble a quick note, it's sometimes the quickest way, even if you have phones and computers. Signatures, forms, notes/ lists.

Exams and assessments still require hand writing, You say "beyond education" as if education isn't important. It is important, and more and more assessments are likely to revert to hand written methods now that AI is so huge.

Learning to write also forms connections in the brain, supports cognitive health, memory, comprehension and motor development. It is a very beneficial process for a child to go through.

There are so many reasons why it is beneficial and important. Technology is not the answer to everything (and I say this as a 30-something who grew up with computers and a mobile phone).

Also, when the apocalypse comes, you're gonna want to be able to write a message in a bottle or to the guy in the next cell over 😂

We had this when I was in school and I’m 50! Took me ages to get my pen. Not heard it called a pen licence though.

The illogical nature of “once they write in pen the incorrect formations become repeatedly practised in every day writing but when writing in pencil it’s easier to practise and refine” would annoy me. Incorrect formations in pencil are presumably also repeatedly practised in every day writing, and I don’t see any reason why you can’t correct a child in pen.

Having said that, it’s not something I’d argue over.

I'm late 40s and never had a pen license system in primary school, I think we used pencils throughout primary school and then used pens in secondary. When my dd told me about them I just thought it sounded daft but generally I don't bother making a fuss with the school's rules. If there's something I disagree with I just let them get on with it in school and do what we like at home (where my dcs use pens if they want). I don't find it particularly different writing with a pen or pencil tbh.

I guess maybe you're not a professional though, so you wouldn't have seen hundreds of children go through the process?

I would assume that a teacher knows what they are talking about and, unless I actually knew differently, I would trust their experience. Pencils and pens are clearly different in terms of fine motor skills and how they feel to write with.

I don't personally really agree with pen licences but I think sending a pen in with your child when the class clearly has a policy is unreasonable. There will be lots of awards and privileges at school and in life your child won't get and others will. Parents wanting to intervene about every little thing and remove every barrier for their children is creating a nightmare for schools and not doing their children any favours. Just tell your child it isn't a big deal and not everyone is good at everything and move on!

Also I teach Year 3 and they don't use pens. I don't think it's until year 5. So your child isn't being held back.

There isn't any evidence to support this though.

My expertise in how children learn to write is less than that of a primary school teacher, so I would trust their experience unless I actually knew differently.

Sometimes a lack of evidence is simply due to a lack of studies, not necessarily a reason to go questioning every decision a teacher makes when doing the pretty bloody difficult job of teaching 30 kids in the current state of UK schools.

We complain that teachers no longer have agency because of OFSTED etc., but then we also complain when they are trying to make decisions that benefit the children they are teaching.

This teacher has clearly thought quite a lot about OP's son and given a very thoughtful and individualised reasponse, which they are just being accused of using AI to write. The teacher can't win.

(I'm not a teacher btw, I just sympathise).

I really don't think this is all that bad.

My left handed child never got the stupid pen licence either!

What reasons are there for it being beneficial and important once you have stopped doing exams? Obviously have to sign things sometimes but apart from that can't think of when it is needed apart from forms where I would use block capitals. I just type. It is not the same as not being able to walk at all. I know from experience.

I had never heard of a pen licence, but they have this completely fucked up rule at DS's school as well. The teacher's correct when they say that children need to learn to write their letters properly, but it's total rubbish that using a pencil is somehow better for doing this than a pencil.

I did what other's have suggested and told DS it was just one of those pointless and stupid things one has to put up with sometimes and made sure he had plenty of pens to use at home. There is so much wrong with schools that I'd save my energy for the bigger battles ahead.

Can’t believe they’re still doing this ! We had this when I was in year 3 and I’m 37. I still remember how gutted I was not to get a pen !