Does the rise of the child free mean that attitudes have changed towards parents and children?

[Itchthescratch]

I have been on a few threads on MN recently where animosity amongst child free people towards parents seems to be ramping up. The underlying premise seems to be that parents shouldn't receive many or in some cases any concessions from society for having children because it was their choice. Children are no longer seen as a necessary part of society that will need to be subsidised to some extent by the state and everyone else, like the elderly or disabled, but are instead seen as the fulfilment of a parent's selfish desire in the the same way that someone might choose to have a pet.

AIBU or has anyone else noticed this?

I’m talking about Christmas Day.

Sitting in a nursery as a 3 year old, most likely already deprived in some way, on Christmas Day isn’t exactly giving joy, is it?

On the previous thread a poster talked about how she had covered for parents many times but when it came to her Grandads funeral they "couldnt possibly"

So deprived from going to a relatives funeral but i bet you wouldnt call that psychotic

Something being ignored in the children are a choice perspective, especially when comparing them to pets, is that the choice is often ill informed due to poor sex education and made by people very young but what is specifically unique from the pet perspective is you can relatively easily give away a pet you regret. Sure some people will shame you (without asking for details/context or offering help) for rehoming a pet but it’s still possible if you find that the expectations of pet ownership don’t match reality. People on the internet tend to spew the rhetoric about the frontal lobe developing by 25 but shame people who became parents between 16-24 who of course had no idea what they were doing and likely had guardians who didn’t help them or inform them better, or made similar poor decisions at the same age and encouraged their children to do the same or demonstrated it as normal. Failing at parenting can result in jail time or other legal penalties where as being a bad pet owner has to get out of control for the law to get involved. I think it’s one thing to say a financially stable 30+ year old made the choice to become a parent but parents from less privileged backgrounds are often pressured to have children or influenced by the normalization of it in their environment or weren’t educated enough on safe sex to avoid pregnancy and I don’t view that as having a choice.

Look I haven’t mentioned Christmas Day nurseries at all. It’s PARENTS on threads that say the ONLY reason they CANNOT work Christmas Day is lack of childcare. So those parents would obviously be happy to work Christmas if there WAS childcare. So you seem to have visions of these poor children sitting playing with a lump of coal on Christmas Day while their parents work etc and it’s all the fault of non parents who are calling for these nurseries. But it’s the PARENTS saying that childcare would enable them to work. Also you do know plenty of non single parents work over Christmas and often what the families do is have full Christmas on another day when both parents can be there. It really isn’t the end of the world unless you are very very religious. A 2-3 year old especially wouldn’t really notice it being a day earlier or later! I once went to a funeral abroad on 24th December as a child. We flew home on Christmas Day. We had our “Christmas day” on Boxing Day. I’m not scarred by it. My single parent friend is cabin crew for an airline and often works on Christmas Day while her son stays with grandparents. They do a small Christmas Day while she’s at work with one present then a “normal” big Christmas Day and lunch when she’s back.

No, it’s clearly not psychotic, is it?

It’s a lesson to never cover for those colleagues again.

As a lot of us are leaving it till later to have kids these days, we come to parenthood as more mature people who have experienced being that child-free 20- or 30-something who was expected to let the parents at work have priority because our families didn’t include children. Knowing how crap that feels, I don’t demand special treatment just because I’ve popped out a small human - it was entirely my choice to do that.

So its psychotic to put a child in nursery on CD but its not psychotic to have absolutely no compassion for someone who has suffered a bereavement

Got it

What concessions? If you mean schools and your children receiving an education, well didn't you have one? Tbh free state school doesn't touch the sides of what children need from the parents efforts emotionally, financially and practically to become well rounded, educated and useful members of society, you know, the one you live in that wouldn't be able to function without people having children.

Careful now. For a certain type of person it’s a mere hair’s breadth to read your comment and see a direct link between all these selfish, childfree women and plans for rising numbers of immigrants.

A single parent with no family support saying that they can’t work on Christmas Day if they don’t have childcare is simply a statement of fact, it’s not a proposal by them for Christmas Day nurseries.

I know plenty of people with children who have worked on Christmas Day, morning or evening, people with children who have travelled on Christmas Day and some who has spent Christmas Day in hospital, so of course the celebration isn’t fixed.

But a single parent with no childcare is an entirely different scenario, and the idea of a child sitting in a nursery setting on Christmas Day for their mother to work is incredibly sad.

Thankfully it will never happen.

They are not comparable situations.

Really agree with the ‘having to prove you’ve made a good choice’ thing.

Why though? For someone from a different country where Christmas isn’t a thing they wouldn’t care. Even some people in this country don’t celebrate Christmas and it’s just another day. Is it psychotic for a child to be in a nursery on their own birthday while their mother works? If not why is Christmas different? It’s a celebration of someone else’s birthday who is long dead (and depending on your view may never have existed in the first place). I have Muslim friends who celebrate Christmas in their own way. They do presents and a nice dinner. But they actually don’t care less if they need to work. They’d just move it to another day. Their kids wouldn’t find it “sad” either as it’s not built up into a big thing in the first place!

Most children in this country do celebrate Christmas though. The Muslims you refer to have their own special celebrations no doubt such as Ramadan. Desperate justification to make yourself feel better about a kid having a crap Christmas.

So all kids who don’t have a “perfect” Christmas on the actual day with all parents around all day have a crap one do they?

Some children would probably have a better Christmas if they were at nursery. Not all children have nice homes with plenty of food, presents and even nice parents.

We were discussing placing a child in childcare for Christmas Day. Yes, I would say that's a crap Christmas. Do you disagree?

Again, this is desperate rationale. Most children would have an infinitely better Christmas with their families. To pretend otherwise is strange.

And you could still end up old and alone having kids doesn't guarantee they'll look after you when your old it's not a reason to have kids 😂

I can’t believe you typed that out to try and justify children from single parent, low income households spending Christmas Day in a nursery setting to make things “fair” between some adults in the workplace.

As people tell their children every day “fair isn’t always equal”.

I know a few problematic people who are recieving the NC treatment for being cvnty to their children.
In my personal experience being child free means I have to work extremely hard to cultivate my relationships with people, as I don't have the luxury of taking people i birthed for granted .

I said some children. How is that pretending otherwise?

It's not about fairness: the reality is that some industries require staff 24/7/365. Emergency workers, for example.

Obviously it's shit if you have to work Christmas Day and put your kid in nursery while you work: no one who observes Christmas would look forward to that. But it's better than not being able to support your children.

I have thankfully never been in this position because I've never worked in a life or death industry where people have to be in work at certain times but I was a single parent on whose income my child depended for survival and if I had had to put my child into childcare on Christmas Day in order not to lose my job, I would have done it. Plenty of care workers, NHS workers do have to. You can think this is "psychotic" if you like but that is some people's reality.

If I was in that situation I would hope people without children might take one for the team but they're also within their rights to want to spend their Christmases with their own families. My having a child isn't an automatic trump card over other people's families.

Exactly.

I'm not entitled to Christmas Day off just because I have small children. If you work in an industry which is needed on Christmas Day then it is something everyone needs to accept, including parents.

Or don't work in an industry which is needed over the Christmas period.

Plenty of care workers, NHS workers do have to. You can think this is "psychotic" if you like but that is some people's reality.

It’s not one’s reality, though, because there are no nurseries open on Christmas Day.