Does the rise of the child free mean that attitudes have changed towards parents and children?

[Itchthescratch]

I have been on a few threads on MN recently where animosity amongst child free people towards parents seems to be ramping up. The underlying premise seems to be that parents shouldn't receive many or in some cases any concessions from society for having children because it was their choice. Children are no longer seen as a necessary part of society that will need to be subsidised to some extent by the state and everyone else, like the elderly or disabled, but are instead seen as the fulfilment of a parent's selfish desire in the the same way that someone might choose to have a pet.

AIBU or has anyone else noticed this?

Grand so. That’s the matter explained in full.
Childfree = selfish and materialistic. Mother = selfless, uncomplaining, and better in every way.
I hope it stays fine for you!

Quite. So things such as flexibility should be determined on need, not automatically prioritised for parents.

I don’t think it’s a problem. Online people just write what they want. For various reasons most things are to be taken with a pinch of salt.

In real life child free and parent people live in practically different time zones. So it’s not something I have encountered in real life.

Attitudes to you should only have children you can afford I think are quite common and would be equal between parent and non parent cohorts.

And it’s attitudes like this thst don’t help

Are childfree men materialistic, selfish and lazy or is it just women?

This is very true. Although it's a bad example.

People who've experienced "both" scenarios can make valid comparisons. People who've only experienced one can only give their opinion on that.

I used to do a long week at the office and say I was absolutely shattered. Then I had newborn twins. If you're talking about an otherwise healthy person in both situations, there's no comparison. But I too, before the twins only knew that level of tiredness, so that's what tired was to me at that point.

Then you've got my mother, caring for my grandmother who's in very poor health. And she's exhausted. She says it's a different level of constant stress, always having to be on call, waiting for bad news, can't ever relax, and at her age it's absolutely draining her. I have no idea what that feels like.

It's not a competition. It's just totally different experiences, that aren't the same. And it's ok to acknowledge that.

Not mandatory so much as unavoidable, since reliable contraception was unavailable.

I don’t think I’m better than anyone. But there’s a whole load of videos online especially on TikTok on how happy they are to be child free and it’s usually to do with me me me and that’s fine, I don’t actually care if someone decides to have children or not but they make it out as though it’s the prize life when that’s not what everyone wants, they act like children are a burden and I feel the opposite that’s all I’m trying to say. I also don’t understand why they have to highlight all the negatives of mothering compared to being child free, to me children are the greatest joy. Nobody has to agree with me, I actually don’t care about that I’m just saying what I’ve seen online

No, childfree men are shallow commitment phobes, lacking some essential quality that makes them decent.

Its really not about parents because men arent getting this crap.
It is yet another way to have a crack at women

I originally wanted children and spent many years and many thousands of pounds trying to have them. For me, as I’ve got older, time to smell the roses and freedom from worry and stress have become the luxuries, not possessions.

You really do seem to have a dim view of the childfree. Perhaps on some level you are a little envious?

I'm actually a bit confused by this response if I'm honest.

I'm a non resident carer for my mum who has dementia FYI , but in no way would I say my tiredness is better or worse than yours, my brothers or anyone elses and is indeed not a competition - my point was not to be an arse full stop.

No I dont think it's the case apart from in the hardcore child free influencers on social media.

I'm child free but I think parents should get all the help they can. I think childcare should be subsidised and I understand why parents get concessions at work, particularly when schools send kids home ill. I need today's kids to pay my pension 🙂

I try not to book holiday in school holidays unless I have to, mostly because I don't like going on holiday when it's busy.

I have seen suggestions that child free people should get sabbaticals instead of maternity leave or pawternity leave for pets but I don't think those people are the majority of child free people. I think it's ridiculous, maternity leave isn't a holiday.

The only exception I think should be for carers. I think there should be an equivalent of paid leave to care for elderly or terminally ill parents, it's so difficult to get things sorted for them and hold down a full time job. Carers allowance is less than half of SMP.

I do occasionally see posters who seem to be expecting every mother, regardless her individual circumstances, to go out to work, which is a view I don't particularly agree with.

I think there is more of a consensus these days though , behind the idea that when you bring a child into the world you need to be able to financially provide for it. In other words don't have children if you're going to be on benefits. So that must come across as harsh for all those women who realistically do need to claim benefits, as even in a commited relationship with the father, the total household income can at times be insufficient.

Equally there are parents who feel that they occupy the high ground because they are parents and they and their precious poppets are more entitled to occupy various spaces than those of us who occupy the same spaces but without children in tow. I spent a lot of time, at one point, having to defend myself against these kind of parents.

I'm not hostile but I do resent this sort of attitude from a certain percentage of parents - both mothers and fathers (who are equally, if not more, obnoxious with their performance fatherhood).

I have seen suggestions that child free people should get sabbaticals instead of maternity leave or pawternity leave for pets but I don't think those people are the majority of child free people. I think it's ridiculous, maternity leave isn't a holiday.

No, it’s not a holiday, but it is time off no questions asked to do something you have chosen to do entirely for your own fulfilment and satisfaction. Obviously it isn’t practical for childfree people to get the same for their own personal projects. I was lucky, I never had any maternity leaves, not for want of trying but I was able to take voluntary early retirement instead.

I think some people seem to forget that they themselves were children once with parents who accessed benefits for them, child allowance, education, and all the many benefits that exist today. It was fine for them to have it, but not for others.

I totally think people should choose what it best for them and their own situations but children don't belong to parents, they grow up and hopefully contribute to society, including benefitting people who don't have children.

Complaining about parents getting benefits is certainly not just child free people - the people I know who complain seem to have adult children and short memories.

Children need investment if they're going to be functioning adults who become tax payers and fund the pensions of today's adults.
Did you not access NHS as a child, state education, free milk, child benefit? Maybe you're from a very wealthy family and didn't but most adults did.

I agree with this: I think tolerance towards parents from the child-free has gone down.

As a PP said I think in many ways this is understandable: until about 40 years ago it was considered freakish for a woman not to procreate and society was organised around the idea that having children was a woman's first and often only priority. Women without children were often ostracised. I'm really glad that has changed and people appreciate that you can live a rich and fulfilling life without children.

The flip side of this is that there are some child-free people who seem to want to go through life without ever coming into contact with children and sometimes I think it can be precious and unrealistic. You not wanting to spend your entire life surrounded by young families is entirely understandable; you never wanting to come into contact with my child or having a go at me because my children's health is sometimes a priority over my social life is not. You don't have to sacrifice your free time to being other people's kids, but we also don't have to pretend they don't exist to spare your sensitivities.

I have a (child-free) friend who is very intolerant of other people's children and basically expects her friends who are parents to go out of their way to make sure she doesn't have to interact with them. She's also very quick to share her opinions about the behaviour of other people's children even when it doesn't impact on her.

I'm always very sensitive about the fact that she doesn't want to spend her free time with my kid so I limit the time we spend with her and don't bang on about her. But I don't need lectures from the child-free about how to raise my child or long rants about how others are raising theirs. There is a quid pro quo: I would never dream of opining on someone else's child-free life but I expect them also to understand that their knowledge and empathy of parenting is limited and to act accordingly.

I'm child free, not necessarily by choice. I met my husband later in life and have made the decision that whilst I could in theory still get pregnant (possibly) I don't want to be supporting a child at university when I'm almost 60. Had I met him 10 years ago, I'd have happily had children. It's not always about wanted Vs not wanted, sometimes it is life and circumstance.

Is this selfish? Possibly depending on your viewpoint. But my lack of sadness about the decision is enough to make me confident it's the right choice.

To note, this is not because I want material things more than kids as someone helpfully suggested is the root cause. Also, I am not 'anti children' at all. I love the children in my life and have maintained a relationship with all my friends who have them. It's just not for me at this stage of my life. I don't expect to come first, I will happily meet them at soft play or a petting zoo. I love them very much. But. I will move seats if a noisy family sit next to me on a train. We all have our limits. Your children are allowed to be there...and I am allowed to move.

I don't mind when a colleague leaves early for a sick child, and believe childcare should be cheaper for all. I have volunteered to work Christmas so colleagues can be with small children. Most of us have no issue I've found.

Ultimately, we're all living our own lives the best we can.

It absolutely is another form of misogyny - I am horrified at some of the comments and assumptions on here about childfree women - they are lazy, love luxury, are selfish... fuck me. I am childfree by the way - not by choice - guess I should be asking where my mansion is and wondering why I am even out of bed at this time on a Sunday... Some of the comments on here are vile and people should be bloody ashamed. I rarely let my 'status' get under my skin, but if there was ever a thread designed to do it. And the 'rise' of the childfree, don't get me started... sounds like the next Spielberg epic as if we are an invading species.

Sorry that you're confused.

John used to do exercise class a, and found it a good, fast paced, work out. He then joined class b and it is faster, longer, more intense and much more of a workout.

James joins class a, and after, sees John. "That was a good workout," says James. "Yes, but you should try class b!" says John.

John has done both and can has a frame of reference to compare. James doesn't know any different, he's only done class a. John isn't an arse for experiencing the difference or acknowledging there is to someone that hasn't. James started a conversation stating his experience. John responded stating his.

I can see this from all angels.
What I find extremely important is the fathers’ lack of parenting.
I have worked a long time and can’t recall a time where the father took more time off than the mother, even when the woman was the breadwinner.
In fact even when the mother was a senior manager and the father more of just an employee, it has always been the mother having to deal with childcare issues.
Until this is addressed other staff will feel put out.
There are many older women who had to sacrifice their career over this. Not saying this is right, but why should they now have to again pick up the slack at work.
I don’t agree with one group getting say priority to have Christmas off. You are all employees.
Of course if you want to work and let someone else have time off that’s different.
I think the pendulum has swung too far in giving children access to adult spaces.
I don’t think it’s always beneficial for children, never mind other adults.

Also, control your children. They absolutely are your responsibility.
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You forgot the we don’t really know love or tiredness because we don’t have children needed that for a full house

its great fun when you introduce yourself at a hobby and the only conversation is children, you get ignored because you don’t have any and end up leaving the hobby you enjoyed

I agree. Some posters are quite sneery towards “breeders”