AIBU to think migrant sex crime data should be published? And to wonder why Labour are blocking the release of that data?

[Fabiansrule]

Labour Blocks Release of Migrant Crime Data

'Victims of serious crimes and their families have joined forces to demand that the Labour government publish detailed data on offences committed by foreign nationals, accusing ministers of withholding information that is “clearly and legitimately in the public interest”.

Among the signatories are victims of high-profile sexual offences and families of murder victims. One signatory is a 14-year-old victim of a sexual assault in Epping allegedly committed by an illegal immigrant, in the same Essex town where asylum seekers were housed at the controversial Bell Hotel.
Fiona Goddard, a survivor of rape-gang grooming who has campaigned publicly about her experiences, has also signed the letter.

Eight relatives of Rhiannon Whyte, a hotel worker murdered by a Sudanese national, are also among those backing the demand.'

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news-corner/labour-blocks-release-of-migrant-crime-data/

I didn't say that

Not much thought put into the post you're replying to. It's the usual lazy 5 second response. As they don't give this situation any more thought, why should the rest of us? If we want to exercise our right to know who we are letting in the country, we have just got to be racist. How fucking boring.

Because we all know that this data will be sensationalised by the media in a way that the equivalent data for white, British males committing the same crimes isn't.

Rape/abuse reporting is already skewed. There was an absolutely horrific case a few years ago that I only heard about because 24 Hours in Police Custody did a programme on it. A white British male had systematically been drugging, raping and filming young women without consent. Had this been a brown-skinned migrant, it would have been front page news and all over social media at the time, but it wasn't.

There's also the problem that people seem perfectly capable of hearing/reading about horrific crimes committed by white British individuals and NOT going out and bullying every white British person in the area, or expecting every white British person to take responsibility for the crime of an individual who happens to look like them. Unfortunately, many are incapable of doing the same when an individual of another race commits a crime.

As someone has already mentioned, conviction data alone doesn't tell the whole story. We also would need to look at other factors, such as:

1. Is it more likely that white, British women will report sexual assault if it is committed by a foreign national/person who is not related or well known to the victim?
2. Is it more likely that a foreign national will be convicted, or less likely? Out of the number of trials of sexual assault/abuse/rape for foreign nationals AND British whites, how many in each group result in conviction? Are juries more likely to convict non-nationals?

It's not as simple as, 'here's the numbers'. But confirmation bias will try to make it so. The media certainly will.

We know it’s skewed. The grooming gangs showed us that.

Then it all needs to be published and then we'll get a clearer picture of what's happening.

The govt are trying to stop it being published. Why could that be? Is it because they want to 'prevent racism and vigilanteism'? What does that tell us about what's in the stats?

Ethnicity isn't the same as migrant though. Some people's ethnicity will be different to nationality. To be realistic the data needs to include ethnicity plus nationality, and to be honest maybe what generation of UK settled status. Just because someone is born here so not a migrant it doesn't mean they share British values. For example some of the rochdale grooming gang were born in the uk.

I'm from a 'migrant' family but we are white and technically British decent. It can get quite complicated at times.

Accurate information would be full information, not limited to the foreign born. That wasn’t OP’s first thought.

As with the demographics of imprisoned terrorists, there could be surprises!

I didn't realise laws relating to the rape and murder of women and domestic violence, just appear by magic. It's as if women don't campaign to push through legislation such as Clare's law.

I imagine it wasn't the OP's first thought because most people would assume that the British govt already had stats in crimes committed by British people.

Of course we need the data published on crimes committed by all people. We need the kind of stats produced by other countries like Sweden and Germany. Let's have the stats and then we can draw conclusions from them.

It depends on why you want the data, though? If it's because you believe there is a problem, is it going to make a difference what the data actually says? How objectively will it be viewed if the primary requesters of the data wish to use it to prove a point?

If people are not, and have not been, interested in looking at the data for native born subjects, as I suspect many wanting to see this data have not been, then it is questionable whether their desire to see this data really has anything to do with any sort of objective analysis. And that's where the racism comes in, because I doubt very much those who want to see this data will be interested in looking at all of the multiple nationalities who come here every year. They don't want to know about Australian students on a work visa, do they? Nor do they want to know about Eastern Europeans.

If we are really honest about it, people want the data for a specific group of migrants. THAT is the racism.

They don’t publish it and are actively blocking it because then given all the data they would likely have to do something and they don’t want to do that.

And if it IS published, how many people will be responsibly and objectively viewing the actual data versus through the lens of biased media outlets?

I worked in an Islamic country and we were told during training if we were raped, not to report it to the police as we would get in arrested for premarital intercourse.

My friend was strangled by her husband in said country and the police laughed it off and said he was allowed to discipline his wife under Sharia law.

I’m sick to death how we are expected to turn a side eye in this country. Many of these illegal immigrants are from countries with barbaric laws. Countries where FGM is encouraged. It’s what they believe is normal. I see on social media so many so called feminists defending them.

But WE won't be drawing the conclusions, really, will we? Most people will be viewing this data third, fourth or fifth hand through a media outlet which plays to their existing bias. On BOTH sides of the debate. Most people will wait for the 'conclusions' to be drawn for them by someone else with an agenda to push. That's what makes any information release in this day and age such a minefield, and why innocent people get targeted.

Data is a minefield of interpretation. You can bet that any data released will be debated to death. What point it proves will very much depend on what point the myriad of different platforms want us to think it proves.

I will place money on, if the data ever gets released, what is actually contained within it will be different depending on which platform you view it on. If it doesn't say what people want it to say, there's clever individuals who will either make it appear that is DOES say that, or accuse the government of tampering with it/whatever.

Collected yes. Published no.

Which is awful and we need to fight for the rights of those women too.

But this is the UK where rape is encouraged to be reported.

This country is not perfect and we’ll unfortunately probably always have violence against women.
Our systems like the police force have deep routed misogyny.

Just look at the husband who drugged his wife and how many men raped her whilst she was sleeping - these were all ‘normal’ men and non immigrants.

But the difference is, in this country it is a crime and women can usually get some sort of justice.

You need to sort out the algorithm on your social media because that is responsible for brainwashing people.

the IOC accepted it would be both costly and complex but ruled that those are not sufficient reasons

But also;

"In the absence of a coherent explanation of how the [cost of compliance] estimate has been calculated, the Commissioner cannot conclude that the cost limit would be exceeded."

Not really. Only if you look for Labour pov only and do as you have there with anything non Labour.

Well let them publish data to prove that.

Rape crisis do release data on sex crimes.

85-90% of SA and rapes of women see committed by someone they know.

If the majority of men you know are white British, then statistically you’re 90% likely to be attacked by a white British man.

If the majority of men you know are immigrants, then statistically you’re more likely to be attacked by an immigrant.

Why should concerned people be interested in analysing data. That's why they feel it should be published, after it's been collated and filtered. It is certainly not racist to want one's own suspicions or gut instincts confirmed. If people weren't being gaslit, we wouldn't be at the point of feeling something is being hidden. The existence of racism is yours to prove, not for citizens to constantly have to justify their thinking around immigration.

Denmark does this… no shock as to what the data revealed. We must 100% do this.

Make your mind up op. You talk about migrants, asylum seekers, foreign nationals and illegal immigrants as though they were interchangeable. What is it you want to know and what would you like to see as the outcome if data were somehow provided on each or all of these groups of people? What would it mean to you? What action would you like to see taken?

The difference is that many of these immigrants are from countries where they know woman will be punished for their own actions. Whether that is from jail time or honour killings.

I’m not saying white British males do not commit similar acts but unless you have lived and experienced this first hand, many of these men regularly see non Muslim woman as easy goods.

I’m often mistaken for Eastern European and when living in said country at the age of 21, on more than one occasion I was approached by local men in the shopping malls asking what my rates were! This was whilst dressed in modest clothing.

What I see on social media is from people I personally know who claim to be so called feminists.

I’m not saying it’s all Muslims. My XH and his family are Muslims and very kind, good hearted individuals. I have many Muslim friends.

It isn’t racist to acknowledge something that is happening around us.

This point makes no sense. The NEETs might have some issues, but by and large if they were born in this country we will know if they have a criminal record. The men coming in on small boats could be anyone. They could be fleeing persecution or they could be evading a prison sentence in their home country.

More generally, if we know which immigrants commit the most crimes in the UK, we can be circumspect about offering visas to people from those countries.

I find it totally bizarre that we don't just immediately deport anyone who is not a British citizen if they commit a crime. They have to have committed a crime serious enough to warrant a year in prison. Why? If you can't be on your best behaviour here you should be gone.