AIBU to think migrant sex crime data should be published? And to wonder why Labour are blocking the release of that data?

[Fabiansrule]

Labour Blocks Release of Migrant Crime Data

'Victims of serious crimes and their families have joined forces to demand that the Labour government publish detailed data on offences committed by foreign nationals, accusing ministers of withholding information that is “clearly and legitimately in the public interest”.

Among the signatories are victims of high-profile sexual offences and families of murder victims. One signatory is a 14-year-old victim of a sexual assault in Epping allegedly committed by an illegal immigrant, in the same Essex town where asylum seekers were housed at the controversial Bell Hotel.
Fiona Goddard, a survivor of rape-gang grooming who has campaigned publicly about her experiences, has also signed the letter.

Eight relatives of Rhiannon Whyte, a hotel worker murdered by a Sudanese national, are also among those backing the demand.'

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news-corner/labour-blocks-release-of-migrant-crime-data/

Data must be approached objectively, and probed carefully.

On this issue, how would you adjust your thinking for the fact that victims of sex crimes under-report the 85% or more of assailants who are known to them? And are much more likely to be British.

Exactly. Denmark, Sweden and Germany collect and publish data on crimes committed by nationals and foreign nationals in their countries.

Why should the UK be any different? Why is our government fighting tooth and nail to prevent this? What have they got to hide?

It's just best to be transparent isn't it.
Massaging of figures never turns out well
Just be honest and give context. Tell people they could look this way or that

PP was advocating pre-emptive deportation, not giving immigrants a chance to commit a crime. NEETS who have no criminal record may have a very thin paper trail. We may know very little about them.

Yes would a bizarre take you are replying to. It would be more of an equivalent to say we mustn’t publish data on NEETs incase it’s bad for them. Of course we do publish to understand what to do next.

The other stuff is just random as you say.

Do you genuinely think that a migrant being 2-3 times more likely to be accused of sexual assault means they are actually committing 2-3 times as much crime?

Or did you take a second to consider that it’s pretty simple to accuse a migrant with non-native language skills, a lack of money and a population predisposed to believe they are criminals? Much easier than it is to accuse a local man with a social network who would believe they didn’t do it and defend them, wealth enough to afford lawyers to tear an accuser to shreds in court, class indicators that would make society in general disinclined to believe an accuser etc etc.

That isn’t to say that individual migrants are being falsely accused. But it’s obvious to anyone with a brain that someone assaulted by a migrant is far more likely to report it than someone assaulted by a native. When it comes to sexual assault, reports are not an accurate reflection of the crimes actually happening.

In theory, yes of course migrant sex crime data should be published. People have a right to know the true reality of what has happened to this country over the last 25 years.

However, in practice, it can’t possibly happen because the government know that the truth would lead to mass civil unrest, riots & vigilantism on a scale unknown in this country’s history. The police would be completely overwhelmed. As would the courts, prisons & entire criminal justice system. A Reform government would be inevitable, with a massive democratic mandate to do whatever it takes to “take our country back”. And that wouldn’t be pretty.

Data should be collected and published in relation to nationality and immigration status of crime committed by ALL people in our country. That's what they do already in Sweden, Denmark and Germany. Why should the UK be different?

Did you read my post? I discussed similar complicating factors.

Yes it’s shocking but not surprising.
They are hardly going to admit in figures the shit they have unleashed on the public.
The crimes are detailed everywhere, social media papers, tv, usually when they come to court, and that is just the ones they catch.
Absolutely disgraceful the government are spending money to cover this up.

PS @GeographicBox your thoughts are more in the nature of speculation AFAIK, whereas there is data on unde-reporting of assaults by known assailants. It all means that immigrant strangers are disproportionately accused.

What is the usefulness in distinguishing between crime committed by nationals and foreign nationals - what would that evidence mean to you and what would you do with it?

Can you say more about the ways in which the government is "fighting tooth and nail" to prevent certain data being released?

I am not that confident in the critical thinking skills of and average Joe looking at the data.
The data needs to be systematised, analysed and presented in a context. All variables have to be adjusted for. This is a mammoth task. Researchers spend years doing this for relatively small studies so that the results reflect real outcomes. Releasing raw data is not helpful in any shape or form and can be easily manipulated to fit whatever narrative.
The OP advocates for release of data for sexual offences committed by immigrants. But that, in itself, is not useful data. This data should be compared to a "control group". So we should be releasing data on sexual crimes committed by all people in the UK and adjusting it for age, ethnicity, socioeconomic factors etc. But the OP is not asking for that. Which is why there is a high likelihood of data being misrepresented.

You can read the original OP, there is a link there to an article about the government's legal action to prevent this data being released.

Don’t be ridiculous. Most of these migrants come from countries where rape victims are either sentenced to jail for premarital sex or subjected to honour killings.

@poetryandwinei think that people underreport partner violence across the board (in fact, they are probably more likely to do so in a close community, so most religious communities would probably skew worst), so you don’t need to adjust the data. Rapes by partners are an unknown.

However, it would be very unusual for someone not to report a violent stranger rape to the police by someone of any colour - I think that you can study those as a separate category with a greater degree of accuracy about what is happening.

There is no evidence whatsoever that immigrant males are less likely to rape someone behind closed doors and only white men do this - it’s much more likely to be evenly spread such that a (not insignificant) minority of men of whatever colour abuse their partner behind closed doors. Therefore, white men are not “making up” for their potential lack of violent street rapes by abusing women elsewhere.

All the statistics from comparable EU countries show that men from certain countries from which people seek asylum commit violent stranger rapes at a much higher rate than the average British (not only white British, but British generally - people of any colour can be British) male. This is unsurprising and not in any way the amount of pigment in skin. Many of these men come from countries in which women are treated very poorly culturally and many of them have been brutalised - look at the deeds of the Russian army to see what brutality does, the skin colour is irrelevant. Brutalised men from brutalised misogynistic societies are more violent on average and more likely to attack strangers. This is hardly surprising.

Bravo. Immigrants, particularly asylum seekers, tend to be young and poor. Young men and poor men each commit sex crimes at higher rates. That is true of British men as well.

So you think you have the right to tell women and children that they shouldn’t be afraid then.
Im guessing you are in a safe area and have reason to have those luxury beliefs of yours.

Because when we go to the ballot box one of the issues is immigration. People should be properly informed of all if the facts. What has the government got to hide? If immigrants commit no more crime that UK citizens that would shut the racists up. And if they commit 3 x the crime we ought to be told so we can decide whether we want to back parties by their attitude to addressing this.

I’d have thought this was obvious!

It wasn't me.

@GeographicBoxthis is totally ridiculous. No one who is violently sexually assaulted by a stranger is not going to the police because of the identity of their attacker. Rape convictions are low because of underreporting of partner violence, because of the evidential difficulties in those scenarios even if a report is made and scenarios in which a consensual scenario has become non consensual. There is very little evidence that the combination of someone who has violently raped someone in a park, for example, will be due to their skin colour. This is the type of scenario in which evidence is far more easily obtained - if you think that the police are somehow suppressing evidence in order to convict immigrants and protect white people, that’s a very strong accusation.

No it isn’t racist to acknowledge certain things but things that happen in other countries aren’t representative of what’s happening in our country.

I am the first to call out the crimes committed in places like India.
But we do not have the same problems here.

We might still be at risk of violence, we might not be believed by police etc but we wouldn’t be punished for going to the police.

90% of SA and rapes are committed by someone the victim knows.

So when we’re talking about immigrants, it’s going to be the women they know (likely also immigrants) who are more at risk.

People keep saying it’s immigrants that are more responsible for sexual crimes but that is not true when 90% are people you know.

To be honest, I think it's very unlikely that the British government will publish these stats. They want to keep us in the dark.

Who are you telling your children to be afraid of?

Everyone knows that children are more at risk around family members and friends.

@poetryandwine

yes, young poor and brutalised men are more likely to commit crimes, so it shouldn’t be a surprise that certain demographics are more of a risk to women and society generally.