To think a man with five kids he barely sees won’t be considered a catch on the dating scene?

[Bezerk]

It’s my ex. I am feeling quite bitter tonight and could do with some reassurance that he won’t continue getting everything he wants…

Many people have awful judge on these matters. We get plenty of threads from women on here who have ended up with men with an obvious lack of commitment to their previous families, and the woman is seemingly very surprised that the guy doesn't turn out to be terribly committed to her and her children either!

But if you plan to be independent within the relationship then why does it matter? If you aren’t planning to have kids then his skills as a father are irrelevant.

There may be other flaws but that’s the case for everyone. It isn’t a huge flaw in isolation.

I agree and I think the women have to take a certain amount of responsibility for that. Diving into a relationship and having kids in the blind hope that he will be different this time is not a healthy thing to do

It's nothing to do with the intention of having even more kids with him, it's about his character.

It’s not his “skills as a father” though, having not one but 5 living children and abandoning them when you have a moral obligation to raise, physically, financially and emotionally is a huge character flaw and says a lot about a person.
If you would be happy to date a man who has abandoned multiple women to raise multiple of his children and he doesn’t step up to his responsibilities that’s on you, but it is a red flag.
It’s honestly weird that you would argue about this.

Dating someone but not having children says nothing about your independence or dependence. People with children aren’t the only ones seeking committed relationship.

Abandoning 5 children suggests a problem to connect with people, a massive issue with empathy, a lack of commitment, no sense of financial responsibility and an antisocial level of selfishness. All of these are red flags when looking to enter a romantic relationship.

Perhaps you struggle with relationships and human emotions yourself if you can’t see that.

And the women (like OP) usually have more than one child with the man!

If he can't be relied upon to be there for his own flesh and blood, who can rely on him?

For a casual, FWB arrangement, fine. Not an ltr, though.

Any relationship that doesn’t involve a man making any commitment or taking any responsibility is a shit one. Yes, that doesn’t necessarily apply to a ONS, but I don’t think that’s what the OP had in mind.

If a man has 5 children, he shouldn’t have time to date anyone! The fact that he does tells you something about his character.

Depends on your expectations in a relationship and your definition of commitment or responsibility.

Also ‘abandoned’? They are with their mothers, not walking the streets.

If someone wants kids with someone who already has no contact with his existing kids, then that’s up to them but they can’t be surprised when history repeats itself.

There is a vast amount of nuance between ONS/FWB and sharing children together.

I wouldn’t put myself in a position where splitting would disadvantage me in any practical way in any case and it amazes me that people do. Independence means you can have the romantic relationship without the negative stuff.

I agree that sometimes the women are psychos.
One I know (she later admitted it herself to a close friend) lied about her dp hitting her.
Got a restraining order against him.

Backfired because during this time he found someone else. 😁

Of course she was very jealous but tough shit.
Anybody who lies about that sort of thing and wastes police resources has zero sympathy from me.

So if a man doesnt see his kids and his shit dad angle it doesnt have anything to do with his wider general character ....

make sure you are saying the same for "other women." Afterall if they are loving and kind daughters, sisters, friends and it bears no reflection on their character overall.

right?

Sounds like my daughter’s father, and somehow women fall at his feet. I would never touch a man who didn’t bother with his children.

What have ‘other women’ got to do with this?

I will say that I judge people on who they are and how they treat me. If you judge people on one thing which in your opinion is a ‘moral failing’, that is of course up to you.

Just because someone isn’t an absent father or an other woman, that doesn’t make them inherently good people any more than those who are absent fathers or other women are inherently bad

The relationships forum is full of women accepting abysmal behaviour from their male partners , so sadly I suspect you are BU 😏

Same as no man should ever get with a woman who told him to his face more than once that she’s not interested in his (adult) kids and doesn’t want to hear about them

We are discussing whether an action in one area of someone's life is indicative of their character as a whole

Well people are more complex than that. Plenty of cunty people out there who have never been an affair partner or an absent parent, and plenty of decent people who have.

If you have abandoned your children, you’re not a decent person!

In your opinion and in the opinion of most of the single parents on here, perhaps.

Meanwhile, out in the real world, people judge based on more than one moral decision.

Abandoning your children is a massive moral failing!!

Yes - in your opinion. You can say it as many times as you like, it doesn’t make it so in every case.

I presume you or your children were ‘abandoned’, hence the strong feeling.

No abandonment here!

It is a MASSIVE red flag. I can’t understand why some women don’t see that.

I think people would be surprised and my ex has children with me that he doesn’t see but I agree most people irl aren’t bothered by this as much as people think, im guessing most of these men like my ex have friends, family and new partners? Not as if they are social outcasts? Because most people don’t really care if they have kids they don’t see.