Update: to feel as though contextual offers are unfair

[YourWaryHam]

Update regarding this
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5567476-aibu-to-feel-contextual-offers-are-unfair-after-my-sons-results?callback=in&code=YTYYNJU0NZUTMJAZMY0ZY2RKLWE5NZQTNTY4ZDRLYZQ2YTU3&reply=154196625&state=efb9c2356e9442fe90af05997d0b47e9

Hi,
I posted here yesterday about my son and stopped responding because, to be honest, I was hurt for him and I think my post came across as ridiculous. I didn’t say he was the hardest working boy in the world, but he is hardworking, and as his mum I’m obviously going to think that my son is hardworking whether that is true or not I base it on who he is, he’s spent majority of his life being very disciplined ie waking up early for rowing sessions etc.

He was rejected from Oxford because he didn’t meet the offer of 2 A stars and an A on results day. We understand that wholeheartedly he didn’t meet the offer case closed. He was accepted into Durham for economics and maths which unfortunately wasn’t the university he wanted. We’ve visited Durham he didn’t dislike it but it’s not the uni for him, he preferred other unis that weren’t oxford but declined their offers. We had been warned about the importance of his insurance choice and we did speak to him about it, but I suppose he was a little arrogant about it all. He’s certainly learnt his lesson now.

We did submit his for remarks because, looking at the grade boundaries, he was very close to getting 3 A stars only two marks off one on one of his subjects. Which is why he was near miss, on results day he was in a waiting pool essentially on hold. We’re still waiting for the Further Maths remark, but that was a few more marks off but we are willing to risk it so he may not even need to resit anything, but we’ll see.
The school isn’t against resits plenty of students resit all the time a friend of ours their son resat last year as he missed on one of his subject and the remark didn’t change. He’s off to uni this year having achieved the grades required. Sometimes students have mitigating circumstances that affect how they do on their exams in May/June.

Either way, he now has 2 A stars and an A. He is a hardworking boy, like so many other students, and this year has also been incredibly difficult for him as he lost someone very close to him, which affected him a lot. I think it’s tough for anyone who has lost a someone they’re close to, to suicide no one knows how they’d deal with that. I sympathise with my son, he did his best whilst also attending therapy we are super proud of him.

We’re going to look around Edinburgh on their open day and see what he thinks as we recently visited the city and he liked it a lot. He is still applying to Oxford again at least this time he has actual grades not predicted, they apply early so he’ll have time to make decisions if he doesn’t get an offer this time. Last time he got an interview and smashed it but he knows he might not get an interview. He has the grades and can do economics so it’s simply a case of whether he gets an interview and, if he does, how it goes. Oxford is incredibly competitive and, honestly, he was lucky to get an interview and get as far as he did last time. There are so many incredibly bright children applying, and there will always be people who are just as bright, if not brighter, than him.

He’s happy to take the gap year anyway. He wants to work for a while as he’s working in an art gallery and throughly enjoying it then hopefully do some travelling, lots of his friends are taking gap years anyway. His girlfriend was always planning to take a gap year, work and travel, so he’ll probably join her.

I do understand how privileged we are. Saying that we want the best for our child doesn’t mean we don’t appreciate that other parents want exactly the same for theirs. We know we’re very lucky to have had the means to send our children to private school. My original post was a typo filled rant not exactly thinking and looking back, it was definitely a privileged rant. That wasn’t my intention, but I can see how it came across that way, and for that I genuinely apologise.

Ultimately I’m just happy for my son he has been through a lot this academic year I think he should just chill and have fun. Those grades are his and he can do whatever he wants with them. We’ve had a long chat about everything a few tears from me and DH nearly got teary we are just so proud of him. He knows that, even if it isn’t Oxford, he has plenty of options. With 2 A*s and an A, regardless of what happens with the FM remark. He can apply to so many excellent universities and doesn’t need to rely on predicted grades. Other than Oxford and Cambridge, lots of universities don’t require an interview. He’s applied for two courses some unis only maths other econ and maths which is what he wants to study anyway.

People saying maybe he’s not that clever because he missed his offer…. You might be right.

He’ll be applying with achieved grades this time rather than predicted grades, so whatever happens he will be fine. His mocks he achieved 3 A stars but this was before his friends passing. He has now got 2 A stars and hopefully this other remark is a success if not that’s fine. His school did let us know that Oxford do take into account mitigating circumstances but our son did not want that associated with his application so no mention of that to either of the universities. He just wanted to focus on revision at the time. I think a gap year is a good idea he’ll have time to think, and reflect on things beyond just education maybe come October time he might not even want to apply to oxford. He’s said he’s going to have a big think after the lengthy conversation.

He’s a privileged boy and maybe I haven’t done the best job at making sure he knows that since this is his first set back in life but he is 17 he will learn and has lots more time for set backs. We will keep guiding him and make better decisions as parents all I can do is try to do even better with his younger siblings in terms of then knowing their privileges.

Giving up the Oxford offer before the remarks was madness. They are young, they don’t realise how often marks can go up and if they are so young in the year with recent emotional trauma, of course they are prone to hasty non rationale decisions. If he made it through the interview and did STEP, he is clearly capable. Although again, never heard of anyone voluntarily doing STEP in this sort of situation.

I am sorry OP but a lot of us are sceptical. People are using MN to train bots in the art of conversation and emotional intelligence as apparently women have more of it.

If I'm reading correctly your son hasn't actually met his Oxford offer yet because it's subject specific?

I'm not in the English exam system but I wonder whether there is also an advantage to being at a private school in getting remarks? Do all schools/pupils have access to the information about grade boundaries, actual marks received (not just grade awarded), how to request remarking/review, knowledge and motivation to go through the process? OP's son (or his parents or school) seems to have been quick to act and receive a result.

Yes it is the same for all schools. Private schools don't have access to special information. Why would they?

You're right, regarding remarks and grade boundaries. We weren't told any grade boundaries or marks for DD'S GCSEs as 4 x grade 9, 3 x grade 8, 2 x grade 7 and a 6 were exceptional for her school. Perhaps she could have achieved higher grades if we tried. The approach is often taken that if you have a place or can move onto your next steps, you've done brilliantly. Job done.

The PP is correct that private & state school have access to the same info, but how that is used is very fifferent in some places.

The school would (or should) have told you if any of her scores were v close to the higher grade boundary and a review was worth it. If you are just over the boundary there's often very little point, because the one or two marks that might be found won't make any difference.

Check out the Wikipedia page for June Huh. He dropped out of high school, appeared to be pretty poor at maths from an early age, had to repeat several physics courses. He went on to be awarded the 2022 Field medal, which awards outstanding mathematical achievements, he has a PhD in maths and a very impressive academic career.

Not trying to compare your son or anyone else on the thread to June Huh, just pointing out that grades do not always give an accurate reflection of academic ability.

Did he go to a private secondary?
I think it's fair that kids from the state sector are given priority.
My kid missed out on a grammar school by 1 point. We will do our best to support him in years to come but we cannot afford a private school.
Kids in private schools have privileged lives from the outset. It will obviously take more hard work and effort for a state-educated child in an average school to be successfully admitted to Oxbridge.
So I think it's fair he is expected to have higher marks.

There is evidence (slightly) lower grades students from a crap school do much better at uni than better grades at very supportive (private / top state schools).

Because the crap school students know how to self motivate and self study.

Its nothing to do with fairness, life is not fair. Its to do with who can best use the oportunity of a top uni.

I wondered more if teachers at a private school might be more motivated to engage with pupils and their parents to access the information and how to use it?

That's exactly what I meant.

If you have 250 pupils collecting results, moving one from an 8 to a 9 or an A to an A* is not as vital as finding a college place for someone who has got 5 GCSEs unexpectedly

As usual, the first response to an OP is the best.

This is so spot on, it's worth re-quoting in full.

I'm sorry about your sons friend Op, the same happened at my sisters school (my dad even prevented an earlier attempt after the school ball) and it's was devastating.
Your son will be absolutely fine and in a life well lived it will be a small hiccup.

The contextual offers for this particular university were based on factors such as postcode, low achieving school, carer or care experienced, refugee/asylum seeker, estranged from parents.

DD met two of these criteria, the school bully met three, and yes the university was made fully aware. They said they had a high number of applications but that doesn't change the fact that contextual offers are not applied fairly in scotland.

There were talks about removing the postcode element and changing it to income or something because the SIMD (as its called in Scotland) is outdated.

I am not sure I really understand what happened with his insurance choice? Was it Durham but he didn't actually visit?
Did his school not encourage him to visit the places he chose (you now mention waiting and considering Edinburgh for example). I get the feeling he just picked random unis out of a hat and didn't bother to look which seems odd on all of you not to explore wider options.

Also regarding the remarks. Yes anyone can do it. But I recall as a teacher that it wasn't worth bothering unless 1-2 marks out as they simply check the marking adds up. Also essay questions as long as in tolerance don't get changed (unless this has changed in the last few years) e.g. the examiner gave 10 out of 12 but someone else would have given 12. Usually there is a 2 mark tolerance so 10 would remain as the examiner is not inaccurate.

This

And even a less extreme example.

Dan is at the local comp. His classes are all full to the brim with 30+ kids. The school is poorly funded so 20% of the class do not have their needs met and there's constant disruption. The teachers have to focus on getting borderline kids to pass, and are teaching to a large class that is at a lower level on average than the local private school, so there's little room to challenge an academically able kid.

He wants to do science, his school only does double science not triple, so he's gone into a-level less well prepared. His school doesnt offer further maths because not enough kids wanted to do it.

Dan lives in a comfortable home with his parents and sister,they are supportive but neither went to university & they don't know anything about the courses he's looking at, or oxbridge colleges. His school doesnt have a university applications tutor to support him. His parents think he's doing brilliantly to be on track for As, they are not really aspiring to A* for him.

Kids in private schools tend to have SO many advantages - the school will have someone who helps sixth formers with uni applications, classes will be much smaller, disruptive kids or those not attaining high enough are managed out. Its a perfect environment to achieve top grades.

You have to understand op, contextual offers are quite deliberately trying to remove or offset the advantage provided by parents paying for private school.

Without being unnecessarily cruel, you acknowledged he isn’t the brightest so Oxford may not be his bag anyway. There’s a whole magnificent world outside of Oxbridge, I don’t agree with the establishment for various reasons and say this as someone who did my post doc there. If Durham wasn’t for him, Oxford probably wouldn’t be either. They’re very similar cities. If he’s after a more vibrant city and nightlife, he should be looking at LSE, UCL or Manchester even.

Agree. I recommend reading Gary Stevenson’s book for an insight. It goes deeper still, even at uni there’s opportunities you would be completely unaware of/unprepared for if you went to a state school and had WC parents who didn’t go to uni.

Honestly OP, give up on MN for this.

The people of MN must virtue signal hard against any MC/UC white boys.

They are full of shit. Ignore them. I hope your son's re-marks or re-sits get him what he is looking for.

If not hopefully he can sort out something else. As we have seen lately Oxford/Cambridge are not the institutions they once were.

Best thing you can teach him is to look after himself, and think "fuck 'em" to anyone who wants to drag him down.

Spoken like a true Londoner who has never seen a field.

Ok - the same principle applies - Oxford will hold the place pending a remark, and he will get the place if the remark results in getting the required grade. But he's declined the place BEFORE the remark anyway??

Of course he's bright!!