Update: to feel as though contextual offers are unfair

[YourWaryHam]

Update regarding this
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5567476-aibu-to-feel-contextual-offers-are-unfair-after-my-sons-results?callback=in&code=YTYYNJU0NZUTMJAZMY0ZY2RKLWE5NZQTNTY4ZDRLYZQ2YTU3&reply=154196625&state=efb9c2356e9442fe90af05997d0b47e9

Hi,
I posted here yesterday about my son and stopped responding because, to be honest, I was hurt for him and I think my post came across as ridiculous. I didn’t say he was the hardest working boy in the world, but he is hardworking, and as his mum I’m obviously going to think that my son is hardworking whether that is true or not I base it on who he is, he’s spent majority of his life being very disciplined ie waking up early for rowing sessions etc.

He was rejected from Oxford because he didn’t meet the offer of 2 A stars and an A on results day. We understand that wholeheartedly he didn’t meet the offer case closed. He was accepted into Durham for economics and maths which unfortunately wasn’t the university he wanted. We’ve visited Durham he didn’t dislike it but it’s not the uni for him, he preferred other unis that weren’t oxford but declined their offers. We had been warned about the importance of his insurance choice and we did speak to him about it, but I suppose he was a little arrogant about it all. He’s certainly learnt his lesson now.

We did submit his for remarks because, looking at the grade boundaries, he was very close to getting 3 A stars only two marks off one on one of his subjects. Which is why he was near miss, on results day he was in a waiting pool essentially on hold. We’re still waiting for the Further Maths remark, but that was a few more marks off but we are willing to risk it so he may not even need to resit anything, but we’ll see.
The school isn’t against resits plenty of students resit all the time a friend of ours their son resat last year as he missed on one of his subject and the remark didn’t change. He’s off to uni this year having achieved the grades required. Sometimes students have mitigating circumstances that affect how they do on their exams in May/June.

Either way, he now has 2 A stars and an A. He is a hardworking boy, like so many other students, and this year has also been incredibly difficult for him as he lost someone very close to him, which affected him a lot. I think it’s tough for anyone who has lost a someone they’re close to, to suicide no one knows how they’d deal with that. I sympathise with my son, he did his best whilst also attending therapy we are super proud of him.

We’re going to look around Edinburgh on their open day and see what he thinks as we recently visited the city and he liked it a lot. He is still applying to Oxford again at least this time he has actual grades not predicted, they apply early so he’ll have time to make decisions if he doesn’t get an offer this time. Last time he got an interview and smashed it but he knows he might not get an interview. He has the grades and can do economics so it’s simply a case of whether he gets an interview and, if he does, how it goes. Oxford is incredibly competitive and, honestly, he was lucky to get an interview and get as far as he did last time. There are so many incredibly bright children applying, and there will always be people who are just as bright, if not brighter, than him.

He’s happy to take the gap year anyway. He wants to work for a while as he’s working in an art gallery and throughly enjoying it then hopefully do some travelling, lots of his friends are taking gap years anyway. His girlfriend was always planning to take a gap year, work and travel, so he’ll probably join her.

I do understand how privileged we are. Saying that we want the best for our child doesn’t mean we don’t appreciate that other parents want exactly the same for theirs. We know we’re very lucky to have had the means to send our children to private school. My original post was a typo filled rant not exactly thinking and looking back, it was definitely a privileged rant. That wasn’t my intention, but I can see how it came across that way, and for that I genuinely apologise.

Ultimately I’m just happy for my son he has been through a lot this academic year I think he should just chill and have fun. Those grades are his and he can do whatever he wants with them. We’ve had a long chat about everything a few tears from me and DH nearly got teary we are just so proud of him. He knows that, even if it isn’t Oxford, he has plenty of options. With 2 A*s and an A, regardless of what happens with the FM remark. He can apply to so many excellent universities and doesn’t need to rely on predicted grades. Other than Oxford and Cambridge, lots of universities don’t require an interview. He’s applied for two courses some unis only maths other econ and maths which is what he wants to study anyway.

People saying maybe he’s not that clever because he missed his offer…. You might be right.

He’ll be applying with achieved grades this time rather than predicted grades, so whatever happens he will be fine. His mocks he achieved 3 A stars but this was before his friends passing. He has now got 2 A stars and hopefully this other remark is a success if not that’s fine. His school did let us know that Oxford do take into account mitigating circumstances but our son did not want that associated with his application so no mention of that to either of the universities. He just wanted to focus on revision at the time. I think a gap year is a good idea he’ll have time to think, and reflect on things beyond just education maybe come October time he might not even want to apply to oxford. He’s said he’s going to have a big think after the lengthy conversation.

He’s a privileged boy and maybe I haven’t done the best job at making sure he knows that since this is his first set back in life but he is 17 he will learn and has lots more time for set backs. We will keep guiding him and make better decisions as parents all I can do is try to do even better with his younger siblings in terms of then knowing their privileges.

So his offer was two x 2* s plus an A
and one A* needed to be in FM?

What A levels did he sit - Maths, further maths and what else?

Where has the second A star come from? You said you were submitting for remarking, but then all of a sudden he has an extra one and aiming for 3? If he now has the required grades, why is it still a problem? This post makes no sense.

Did he apply to Imperial?

Ok I understand now. Although I am unsure why they won’t wait and then offer.

Though I do agree that just turned 18 is very young for uni and a gap year may be a good plan. Both of my eldest 2 took them (despite being Nov babies) and benefitted greatly .

good luck to him

OP I'm sorry for your son's loss, losing a friend to suicide must be awful.

In reality there is no perfect way to rank childrens ability and award university places. Exams aren't a perfect way of measuring intelligence anyway, every way of assessing intelligence is going to be flawed in some way. There are some very bright people who didn't get good grades due to anxiety, circumstances - some people just don't do well at timed assessments that rely on memorising large amounts of information. Obviously your son is not one of those people as he's done incredibly well, I'm just saying that there is no perfect system. Luck will always come into it. There are lots of students out there who would do extremely well at Oxford but have missed out on a place. Yes of course more privileged kids who have more opportunities will be less likely to miss out, but that doesn't mean that every privileged child who doesn't get into Oxford just wasn't really capable enough.

Pinning all of your hopes on one university and life path is very risky, and I think it can lead people to miss out on other unexpected opportunities too. I didn't get into my choice of university course either, at the time I was devastated. But I took a different path and had a lovely life regardless. It sounds like your son is realising this too.

Edinburgh is a brilliant university and taking a gap year can be a good idea. The UK has quite a few really good universities. And taking a happy gap year can be a good thing too. He doesn't have to travel..I stayed at home and worked during my gap year. Staying at home and working is still good for building maturity and life experience, and for figuring out what you really want to do with life. There seems to be an expectation that gap year means travel and it doesn't have to.

In his friendship group yes he’s the only 17 yr old left. He still hasn’t received the required grades just because he has 2 A stars he needs to meet the subject requirements of his offer letter. We are waiting for another remake it might not even change

No he did not we live in London he’d like to try a new city for university.

Did he get 5 offers? Inc Imperial?

He does not have the required grades on the specific subject requirement. He needs to meet the subject requirements too which is what we are waiting for.

@YourWaryHam seriously do not apologise to the keyboard warriors on here, they are metaphorically ganging up to give you a good kicking even after you have apologised.
You owe them nothing and some of the pp's should be ashamed, they're championing the less fortunate whilst acting like bullies.

Sorry he did not apply to imperial. He did get all 5 of his offers he just made a mistake with the insurance but he knows for next time.

You said your son did STEP & MAT exams. STEP is the exam for Cambridge, not Oxford. MAT hasn’t been used by Oxford for a number of years. Maths-based degree applicants take the TMUA exam.

You can do STEP even if you’re not applying for Cambridge. Applicants who don’t take FM also do it for their applications for unis that aren’t ox or camb. He applied to uni of bath and they factored in his STEP score too with a lowered FM grade in the offer. It just depends on the combinations of subjects he was taking 4 alevels dropped one due to mitigating circumstances that affected not just him his friends too.

If he's not the brightest he doesn't belong at Oxbridge. Durham is an excellent university in a lovely town. If he didn't want to go there why put it as his insurance?

Ah fair enough, apologies. My daughter just did the TMUA exam as that was accepted by all the universities she applied to.

I know you've dialed back on your criticisms of contextual offers and it is very emotional when your child is disappointed but I just wanted to add some context (to contextual offers... get it?!)

My DS qualified and got contextual offers from all of his university choices - as it turned out he didn't need them and would have got in to all of them with his results. I also understand that you son is dealing with the death of a friend and I'm sure that can be devastating. Students who qualify for contextual offers have generally spent their whole lives disadvantaged - losing birth family, spending time in care, being a carer to a parent etc it's not giving a "free pass" to students who aren't really capable, it's trying (and failing in most cases) to level the playing field. Research shows that on average student given contextual offers get better grades by the third year of their university studies than private school pupils (not even all other students but PRIVATE SCHOOL pupils). Anecdotally I've been told it's because private school pupils get so much structure, advantage and pushing that it can mask a lack of effort, ability or drive once they're left to their own devices.

Anyway it's OK to be disappointed that your DS didn't get what he wanted and lesson learned about insurance offers - I managed to persuade my DS to change his insurance offer to one he'd actually be prepared to go to, not that it mattered in the end. My DS is older than yours because he had so much more to deal with in his life that a gap year would have been a no go (apart from not really being able to afford to have one).

Good luck to him and hopefully it will teach him what a privileged life he leads and he'll start again next year older and wiser.

Maybe not we shall see they liked him enough at the interview and thought he was bright enough. I think 2 A stars and A are amazing grades but then again he’s my son if he got Us I’d probably still congratulate him for trying. The interview was months before he lost one of his closest friends. No one can really predict when you’ll lose someone to suicide so yes the exams didn’t go as well as he hoped but he still tried his very best. We could have told oxfor and Durham about the mitigating circs the school recommended but my son didn’t want that associated with his application. He’s now in therapy and doing the best he can

Of course two A stars and an A are amazing results. Nobody here can tell you whether he "belongs" at Oxford or not, so just ignore these posts. There will be so many people who failed to get into Oxford despite being incredible, intelligent and well rounded individuals who would have absolutely thrived there, and who go on to have successful lives via different paths.

Obviously there are also lots of people who would thrive if given the opportunities that your son has, but that's not really the point. Just because he hasn't got into Oxford this time doesn't say anything about his intelligence or capabilities, and it also doesn't mean he won't be very happy and successful doing other things.

People don't really like to admit this, but the difference between an A and an A star can be so much down to luck. Happening to revise the right topics the night before, sleeping well the night before, and obviously losing a friend to suicide the month before is going to have a big impact. Anyone saying that he's not bright enough or doesn't 'belong' at Oxford due to one of his grades being an A is not being sensible.

Unfortunately there are only a certain number of places at Oxford and there will always be some very gifted people who don't get a place.

There are so many other areas of advantage also. Dd is at a state school. She had no help with TMUA - many others have tutors or schools run special classes for TMUA. Most of her peers doing a levels have been tutored, DD has not. DD FM teacher was rubbish and school considered moving her to another school for that subject but it was a timetable conflict. Dd got a B for FM and missed her Warwick offer. Luckily her insurance was contextual due to post code and state school and she is off to Bristol for econ. She was disappointed for a little bit, but is now excited. University entrance is not at all a level playing field and it is good to recognise advantage (dh and I are together with a mortgaged home, can afford food on the table, support her financially at uni). She herself overcame EBSA and put her all into a levels - we can only be exceptionally proud.

Gosh you're a glutton for punishment, OP. Why didn't you just leave it at the last thread? You made a fool of yourself then and you're heading that way again now. No one wishes any harm to your son so you don't have to leap up and fight tooth and nail to defend him but we've all been through/are going through/will go through similar stuff with our children and your son's individual situation is of no interest to anyone but you. However bright and shiny you believe he is when you hold him up for everyone to admire, we all believe our children are brighter and shinier.
Time to go now.

My DD gained all As at A Level and was entitled to contextual offers because she is a young carer. She attended a bog standard Northern comprehensive and her grandmother (who she was very close to) died the day before she sat her first paper. She also worked from aged fourteen.
The places she was offered at university for an integrated Masters in mathematical physics did not take contextextual offers into consideration. There was no lowering of the grades required on any of the degrees she applied for.
Edited to add DD's job.

London is a great city. Why do anywhere else and go to university in what is basically a field?

My DD is one of those who you were scornful of before. She went to an underperforming state school where less than 30% achieved 5 GCSEs including maths and English. A good grade in her history & geography classes was considered to be a 3, aspirational 4. Her GCSE results were excellent, mainly 9s & 8s, despite the fact that a few weeks before her exams both a favourite teacher & a pupil who she had been at school with since year R died by suicide.

Her predicted grades exceeded the standard offer for humanities at Oxford of AAA & so did her actual grades. However, if Oxford didn't look at the context of applicant's backgrounds, she would have been thrown onto the reject pile before interview. She graduated with in PPE a couple of years ago and has since done her masters.

Typically 80 - 90% of applicants to Oxford don't end up taking their place there. I really don't see how the fact that your DD didn't get his expected grades on results day when he was an offer holder suddenly becomes the fault of applicants who have successly completed the application process who didn't have all of the advantages of a private education like your DS.

I haven't read both threads in full, but I assume you now realise that applications are looked at in context, but Oxford gives standard offers to all, regardless of whether they had a private education or went to a less privileged school. My DD had to work every bit as hard to get her place as every other applicant.

I know a handful of dc doing maths at both Oxford and Cambridge. It really is very, very hard work and there are some real genius kids. Oxford obviously saw potential to make him the offer but I wonder if this was due to his extra tutoring and extra curricular activities which, from an independent, would afford him lots of opportunities and confidence? To have missed two grades (one of which you’ve said has been reviewed already and uplifted, one waiting) really means he might struggle at Oxford. It’s unlikely he’ll be in the same league as the very talented and naturally gifted and intuitive mathematicians he’ll encounter there. My ds felt he was pretty average at maths compared to his friends there but he still achieved an A star and about 90% in his exam but he recognised he had to work hard at maths whereas it came very easily to most of these boys on the whole.

One of ds friends is struggling with the work and consequently it has affected his mental health. He’d have been better off in a different university where he’d have been a big fish.

I wonder if your son has actually dodged a bullet!