AIBU to tell my best friend that I can’t financially level things up between our kids?

[stingyorfair]

Sorry for the length, but I don’t want to drip-feed. Names changed but I’ve added names for clarity.

I’m an only child from a wealthy family. I met my best friend Laura at university, and she later introduced me to her brother Sam. Sam and I eventually got together and married. I’m European, they’re British, if that’s relevant.

Laura has an 8yo DD. Her DD’s dad isn’t involved, but Laura has a lucrative job and family childcare support, so they’re not struggling financially.

Sam and I have 3 DC, aged 10, 8 and 6. The cousins are extremely close and have grown up together. Laura and I are still best friends, spend lots of time together and holiday together a lot: sometimes just Laura, me and the kids, sometimes with Sam too. Sam jokes that he’s a third wheel, and theres an element of truth to it!

I have significantly more money than Laura or Sam. Sam earns more than Laura, and Sam and I keep our finances separate. I’m not getting into the reasons for that (mainly asset protection from my side in case of divorce) - it works for us.

On holidays, I often pay for luxuries for my children that wouldn’t necessarily be affordable or reasonable on Sam’s salary alone: private swimming lessons every day, watersports, tennis coaching, boat trips, horse riding etc.

On holiday if I was doing something with my children, I’d often pay for my niece too. She’s my niece, I love her, and I didn’t want her to be the “poor cousin” watching everyone else have fun. I’ve also paid for Laura, me and the kids to go to Disney or bought expensive kids’ event tickets without expecting anything back. My thinking was largely that my kids have more fun with their cousin, I enjoy Laura’s company, and everyone has a great time, so why not?

But this has now spread beyond holidays. My eldest is 10 and I’m paying for tutoring for the 11+ because she wants to try for two particular schools. I’m also considering buying her a horse because she’s serious about riding, as is my niece.

Laura has now started making comments about her DD missing out and, from what I can tell, thinks I should be doing equivalent things for her DD so the cousins don’t have such a disparity.

The latest issue is private school. Because I’m considering private school for my eldest, there seems to be an expectation that I should at least contribute towards something equivalent for my niece.

This is where I’m struggling. I’m happy to treat my niece sometimes, but I don’t think I’m responsible for replicating every financial advantage I give my own children for another child. If I pay for my daughter’s tutoring, that doesn’t mean I should pay for my niece’s. If I send my daughter to private school, I don’t think I should fund or part-fund my niece’s education too, even if I can afford it.

AIBU to have a proper conversation with Laura and draw that line before this becomes an expectation? I really don’t want this to damage what is otherwise an incredibly close friendship. It’s hard to pretend that I don’t get the hints because Laura knows me enough to know that I will get them.

I also don’t really want to go through Sam. Laura and I have a relationship in our own right, so I’d much rather speak to her directly. But I do wonder whether part of the expectation comes from the fact that we’re family through Sam - so is this actually something Sam should be involved in, rather than it being between Laura and me?

Literally what I said. Say they go riding together now at a club. DD leaves club as now has her own horse elsewhere. Therefore DD and DN no longer go riding together.

Is this really the right choice? OP has the choice to just keep DD in the activity with the cousin, that both can afford. just don’t buy the horse, at least not now. It’s an option.

The answer is different for different situations IMO. Gone on holiday together? You would actually be a dick to send your three kids on expensive activities all week leaving DN alone by the pool. If you’ve planned a holiday together you plan activities everyone can afford. Paying for niece is a compromise but as Laura in this situation I’d rather you could just refrain from splashing the cash for a week actually, as I’d be uncomfortable with you paying but not want DC left out.

At the other end of the spectrum, schooling is probably too big of a deal to base on social ties (although most of my kids friends actually do choose secondary based on where their friends are going).

The horse is in between I suppose, but my kids would rather spend time with a friend than do a premium activity, every time.

I would find this really awkward and potentially a long term issue. Because where will this end? Will you be expected to pay for your niece's wedding etc?

So I'd make it clear that these hints have been recognised and are not appreciated. Whether you do that through a very obvious change of subject, or through humour or direct challenge is down to you and what you think would work best in your relationship. But I'd not want this to continue, and to use Mumsnet's favourite weird, a clear boundary needs to be set.

If you can easily afford the extra expense of tutoring why wouldn’t you? The girls can look after a horse together if they want to. I used to stay with my cousin to ride her horse with her occasionally and went to the Farriers one on the horse and one on her bicycle swapped so one ride and cycle each, great core memories. We didn’t live near each other.

There is a lot of creative writing on Mumsnet and the ones relating to supposed wealth are quite funny as they are often written and there are holes or gaps that make no sense if there was actual wealth to the levels suggested.

Its still amusing to read the responses though.

Unusual in the private schools my kids attended - it would only have happened where there was a pressing need for a child to attend a specific private school for SEN or similar out of the ordinary reasons. From experience this is because - people lose jobs, grandparents die, OP might one day divorce, and the money therefore dries up - so people absolutely do not ‘share’ the burden because it makes continuing their children's education a burden and a risk. Most people I know would not want the sense of obligation, the burden of guilt and expectation, to rest on their child either. It’s one thing for a DGP to pay for a school trip or to buy school uniform (my PiL have done both), but many did it as a voluntary gesture or as in lieu of a loan due to parent cashflow issues out of love for their child relative, not because we parents could not afford it long term. As parents - and family considering helping - the decision and the commitment to privately educate a child is a difficult and complex decision in which sustainability is key.

And, frankly it only tends to be for blood relatives, not funding the children of an In law. So in this set up, it would be the brother who would be paying not OP, making the long term commitment.

It is also one thing to cover the cost of a meal, even treat a SIL/her sole child to a holiday (DH and I have done both because we could afford the 6 bed luxury villa and wanted InLaws to join us or because I have friends who have retired or are on low incomes and we are not)- quite another to expect a pony and school fees.

The former is an initial outlay of £10k for a decent pony and tack equipment and then a further £5-10k per annum for the duration of it’s life - plus show fees and vet bills’; private school is likely to cost £40k pa (SiL is going to want comparable /the same school and OP isn’t going to chose an mid stream school), so OP is being asked to offer as much as £500k over the next 10 years (because, let’s face it, it won’t stop at school fees, it will be uni fees/accommodation too). Even if OP is ‘worth’ £20m or more, that’s a huge chunk this friend is hoping to extract - money that belongs ultimately to her own children.

Tbh, I’d find it very hard to feel the same about this friend-cum-SIL and wonder whether the entire relationship wasn’t in fact predicated on OP’s money from the outset.

I'd just ignore it. You have your own 3 kids to think about and pay for, not 4.

And I like how you can set your watch to any mumsnet thread where the OP mentions they have separate finances, that there'll always be a gaggle of people telling the OP how wrong they are about their finances and how that its not YOUR money because you have a partner it's SHARED money. No, it's their money, plenty of married people have separate finances, me included, and it works perfectly fine.

I agree and would add the comment about getting a loan pony above isn't feasible in most areas. Safe and sound children's ponies rarely go on loan and if they do it is to a known and experienced family

A few things - Brits are also Europeans and in the case of divorce your assets aren’t as protected as you assume they will be just because you keep your finances separate.

However Laura is batshit crazy. It’s really not your fault she chose her child’s father poorly and therefore cannot give her child the same as you can yours. I think you need to be clear. In my family we have some very poor family members, very wealthy ones and everything in between. Yes sometimes the wealthy family members will cover various things but nobody expects them to provide ongoing financial support and privileges to children that are not theirs.

But this kind of entitlement seems common.

I would likely keep ignoring her to be honest. Ignore all the pointed comments unless she asks outright then I would say no.

I think the point though is if married the assets aren’t as separate as you think they maybe in the case of divorce.

"It would be lovely wouldn't it, are you looking at buying one aswell then? Im finding they're a lot more expensive than I imagined they would be!"

"Yeah, the girls would love to go to the same school, it would be great if your parents could help you out with the fees. Im already dreading footing the bill for all 3 of my kids at once eventually."

Then you're throwing her CF hint back at her. If she actually directly asks you about helping, make sure you laugh it off with a big laugh followed by a "good one Laura!" If thats not enough to shut it down then have a full conversation about it. In my experience its best not to jump into a big long deep chat in the first instance, as it would probably be embarrassing for her and potentially strain your friendship.

You need to be honest with, expectations you will pay for private eduycation and a horse for your niece arew not reasonable. Disparities in wealth happen in all families, it's natural and normal- it is not up to you to even them out, you have been generous but it is important that your friend understands there are limits, and what those limits are.

Quite honestly I would just ignore all the comments Laura makes, laugh and carry on the conversation. Unless she asks you outright for money (in which case have an answer prepared) it's not your issue to deal with.

I think a sit-down conversation would be a mistake @stingyorfair . Laura will be embarrassed and offended, no matter how gently you handle it. Nobody likes to be accused of being a sponger / freeloader, which is the implication even if you don’t frame it that way (and even if it’s true).

If she knows you well enough to know you will ‘get’ the hints, then she knows you well enough to realise that not agreeing to her suggestions or making any offers means “no”.
Dial back a bit on the extravagant generosity and start planning stuff that you know that Laura can easily afford, and start going halves on those things / each paying for your own. Readjust the boundaries gently so that she can notice and adjust her expectations accordingly while saving face.

IF she struggles to get the message and eventually calls you out on ‘leaving her daughter out’ or being ungenerous, that’s when you can have the open conversation about what you are prepared to pay for and what you aren’t. But she will have instigated the conversation.

Good luck, yanbu.

Depends how much money you have, but if you’re really really rich then in your position I would be so happy to share that with the people who I love who are close to me. Partly because I would enjoy making their life easier but also because realistically if you’re THAT rich then it’s the only way to bridge the gap with ordinary folk isn’t it. Else being rich would feel like a curse where you had nothing in common with the majority of people and would leave you a bit isolated. I would rather share it and share the joy.

You could consider giving a fixed amount of money so that it’s sort of ‘done’ and then say I have done this to help you out and then not blur edges, then you have your money and I have mine. Then she can choose if she wants to blow that money on a horse or be more careful and consider school fee top up or investing for the future

I dunno what people are like with their friends, but for me this would just never work - these 2 women have been friends for decades, she’s married to her brother and they spend a lot of time together. Throwing in ‘oh how great your parents are going to help with the fees’ when she’s intimately aware of their financial position no doubt so knows that’s not happening, or saying oh I’m dreading paying for 3 school places when Laura knows that’s not possibly true is just so inauthentic and presumes they are at most passing acquaintances- just tell her you’re not willing to pay for her school due to whatever reason and be done

I mean, I’m intrigued and everything, but does anyone else idly wonder whether the OP is a novelist testing out a plot line and the dialogue that might sustain it? Do let us know how you plan to proceed OP!

Next time she drops an unsubtle hint, just say "Laura, these hints are getting pretty blatant now! Sorry, but I will not be taking on any long term financial commitments for anyone other than my own kids" ... And then change the subject.

If their marriage is a separation of property regime, they can be. I took it to mean that this is what she meant, anyway.

I think OP was giving a general overview of their financial set up to make it clear that it is OP that has the money, not her husband, or the two of them as a couple.

The issue she’s asking for advice about doesn’t require an in depth break down of precisely how she manages her finances.

Im genuinely surprised so many people read this and didnt immediately read it as a creative writing exercise but maybe I just spend too much time on mumsnet lately (rubbish health and in need of distraction) and these im so rich and have problems with people coming after my money stories feel all too similar to me. They also always write them but seem to have very little understanding of what its like to have the level of wealth they write about and as soon as people pick up on that, they disappear.

The issue she is asking about does depend on her wealth, though, and what outcome she cares about, neither of which she has bothered to elucidate.

My advice would be very different if she were a member of the Arnault family vs a trust fund of a couple of million.

Also, it would depend on how much she valued the continued integration of the families into, effectively, one large extended family.

@holidayhelpneeded1 ,

How would it be a creative writing exercise?! And what would the OP get out of the advice that she received?

If I want to be cynical, I do think that there are certain types of thread that you just need to set going and they will take on a life of their own with minimum further input from the OP.

And clicks make money, especially if MN really is up for sale.

Obviously, I am not that cynical though!

If I genuinely had huge amounts of wealth and wanted for nothing then I would happily pay for family members to have these additonal luxuries. Why not spread the happiness?? But if I was normal rich 😂 say a couple of million, I would do what you are doing currently and no more. I get the feeling you are the former though, in which case in my opinion YABU but such is the life of the super rich I guess. Enjoy!

Honestly a whole bunch of posts on Mumsnet are fake, sometimes they get pulled, sometimes they dont, sometimes it takes days or weeks before its finally realised or acknowledged that its utter crap but it happens quite a bit on here and the longer you are around the more you see it.

As to what people get out of it, genuinely dont understand it myself sometimes but doesnt stop it happening. But the bullshit becomes more obvious sometimes. It can be a mix of a hint for money, attention, rage bait and the cynic in me thinks sometimes it is to drive traffic.

But then you go the opposite way and even when MN themselves remove a post for being utter crap, some people will STILL insist its real.

I always say just take everything on here with a pinch of salt.

My husband and I paid for my niece and nephew to go to private secondary school- the only local state school was in special measures. We worked on the basis that we would have left them something in our wills anyway- we decided to make a difference now whilst they were young rather than when they are much older. Both went to university and have really a great life. We asked for them not to be told, I don’t think they know - it is irrelevant anyway.