How do I repair things after shouting at my teenager in public?

[Pumpkinlatte1235]

I know I’m in the wrong, how do I move forward?

holiday with extended family, teenager (14) and ND / tourettes 11 year old who was been extremely dysregulated all holiday so I spent most of it in air conditioned room with him. it’s been hard work to say the least. Teenager (14) has been very very sullen for 2nd half of the week; sleeping late, refusing anytime with family, glued to phone. Typical for a teenager I guess. Got very angry with me mid -week for being in room all the time with his brother, saying I prefer him. I completely understand his feelings but I also know he deep down knows it’s not true and when he’s very dysregulated as he has been this week, only I can keep him clam. Not a defence, more just a context. Last few days all my teenager muttered was to tell me to f-off, ignored extended family and generally behaved like Kevin And Perry. Throughout the week I kept asking if something was bothering him and he kept all saying no, he’s just had enough of me looking after his brother all the time and I am annoying.

FF to travel home day and I was beyond stressed at airport- flight delayed, younger DS dysregulated beyond belief, awful unexpected heavy period for me leaving me with the energy of a slug and I asked kids to go and grab me a bottle of water. Within 2 mins youngest came out shop crying saying older brother had hit him and laughed at him for his tics. Given the behaviour the last week I believed this and saw red. I marched into the shop where teenager was loading up snacks for
the flight and told him he wasn’t having any given his behaviour. He smirked and carried on picking them up and I’m ashamed to say I grabbed them out his hands and put them back on the shelf. I walked out the shop and as I turned round he mouthed at me “F- you” and I just lost it, I raised my voice and shouted F-you, I’ve had enough of your silent mouthed swear words at me and your smirks. The only way you will listen is if I shout it out loud and embarrass you. He started to cry and he stopped mouthing swear words at me but hasn’t spoken to me since.
i know what i did was awful. I am mortified. I’ve tried apologising and he won’t hear it. how do I repair this?

Firstly, you have an awful lot on your plate and I honestly can’t imagine what that must be like, so my heart goes out to you.
Having said that, I really feel for your eldest boy. He’s 14 with raging hormones and even without a high needs brother, he’d probably be grumpy and moody a lot of the time! But he does have a high needs brother and he’s screaming out to you that he feels second best. You sound as if you’re trying to carve out 1:1 time with him but I feel as if the holiday was the straw that broke the camel’s back and he’s too far down the road of feeling set aside. I wouldn’t ask him if he wants 1:1 time, I’d say,’Hey, I thought we could get a takeaway/snacks on Thursday and watch (whatever he enjoys watching) so don’t make any plans’ or something along those lines. If you ask then he just pushes against that because a) he’s a teenager and b) he probably still sees it as you’ll fit him in when the younger brother doesn’t need you.
The airport situation was absolutely awful though. You originally said you hadn’t seen what happened and even if they did have a bit of a shove, they’re siblings, it happens! To grab his snacks and then publicly humiliate him to the point of tears is dreadful. Just because of a sibling shove? Did DS2 still get his snacks?
At the end of the day, he’s 14 and he’s crying out for attention. Not necessarily in terms of time but he needs to be ‘seen’.
I hope things smooth over soon

Are there really zero tells beforehand?

And he's 11? And verbal?

And when he goes into 'meltdown' he instantly gets your full attention?
And both of you are trapped into believing that he cannot self regulate and that you and only you can coregulate him?

Ok here's what I would say; you may not like it.

He cannot continue going from 0-100 with no warning and having it excused. Otherwise you are going to have an extremely dangerous 15 year old on your hands. You have a small window of time to effect changes.

When he is calm and busy you need to have a chat. Buy a new Lego item and sit beside him while you do it together, or join him playing Minecraft or whatever.

There are 3 phases: acceptance, normalise, problem solve (which you may link to the "size of the problem").

Acceptance - accept that he is experiencing unpleasant feelings when he goes into meltdown. "It's not surprising that you get upset, it's difficult when it's so hot,"
Normalise: make it clear that he us not unique in having feelings of discomfort or overwhelm: "lots of people find being hot really uncomfortable".
Problem solve - "that's all normal and to be expected. Me and Granny and brother were all hot and grumpy too. But when you get so wound up you just end up feeling even hotter and more upset. I wonder whether there is something we could do instead of a meltdown next time. What do you think?"
Get him to make suggestions.
You can also talk about problem sizes and problem responses. Big problems mean big responses - your house is burning down, you run out and scream and cry. Smaller problems mean you need to try problem solving first. You can model this: I have lost my car keys, that's a level 2 problem. Should I give a level 5 response and lay on the floor thrashing about? How will that solve the problem? What can I do instead? Make it a game of working out suitable responses to problems.

Fwiw there are usually 4 ways to solve problems - ask for help/ communicate you are struggling

• try doing it a different way
• negotiate/ meet in the middle
• leave it and come back to it later

DS isn't really doing any - well, he's doing 1 in a passive way by having a meltdown. But if he said "I am bothered by this heat/ this crowd" a few seconds earlier you could avoid so much stress. You might think he cannot, but that's half the problem. Even neurodivergent people are capable of developing skills of regulation

Start talking about problem sizes and problem responses, tell him he is giving a level 5 response to a level 1 problem, put the 4 ways to solve a problem on your wall and explicitly refer to it every time you have an issue - talk through what you are doing and how you are using your thinking brain to work out what might help.

"I have lost my keys. That's a level 2 problem and I feel stressed because I need to find them quickly or we'll be late for swimming. I am going to try problem solving. I have done ask for help - let's all get looking together - and I will also try doing it a different way - while you guys search everywhere I will stand still a minute and try to remember when I last had them. That way I am hopeful I will find them.....I had them yesterday when we came home from the shop. I was using my blue bag! Let's check in there!"

The first step is believing that he does have the capacity to self regulate and problem solve (and unless he has severe learning disabilities, he does). He just needs more explicit teaching on how.

We used to have similar (not quite as bad, and fairly infrequent) meltdowns in my son when he was 8 through 11, before he seemed to grow out of them (he is now a fantastic, pretty normal 18-year-old).
This doesn’t sound like the sort of thing DS2 needs you specifically for – other people can prevent him from harming himself. It might not be ideal for him because he obviously wants you and will calm quicker with you, but being prioritised behind DS2 all the time isn’t ideal for DS1.

Just because DS2 has a condition and DS1 doesn’t, it doesn’t make his needs and wants any less important. Sometimes you will need to put DS1 ahead of DS2, or you risk this dynamic where he feels abandoned and less loved becoming permanently entrenched.

Absolutely this. I think OP has had a hard time from many posters who don’t seem to have a grasp on how hard the situation is and have difficulty in recognising that more than one thing can be true at one time.

I really feel for OP - she's in what seems like a no-win situation without any real help (it seems) and an ex-DH who isn't doing his part, and everyone is suffering because of this like of wider support. No one is wrong for how they feel in this situation, so the best option is clear and open communication and showing a little vulnerability. DS1 is hopefully old enough to appreciate that.

I think @DrRuthGalloway has some great specific advice regarding DS2 just above, though.

You suggested that DS2 could control himself when at his dads’ home. From what OP says DS2 masks the whole time he with his dad, and dysregulates as soon as he gets home. That isn’t control, it’s a stressful and exhausting coping mechanism that has consequences for OP as she is the one dealing with the fallout. Yet you stated that this was proof he could control himself while at his dads’ - suggesting that you didn’t know what masking or dysregulation are. I didn’t make any assumptions. I responded to what you stated.

OP, your life sounds incredibly tough. I can’t imagine how stressful it is always being on tenterhooks waiting for the next meltdown.

People are saying give DS1 more time and attention but it sounds like you’re doing everything you can and I am concerned about you. You can’t pour from an empty jug, what support and coping strategies do you have?

DS1 sounds like a great lad with a lovely bunch of friends. It’s great your boys get on well. 14 is the most hideous age to live through and to parent through. Boys who have been very close with their mums in particular want to assert their independence and separateness from their parents and friends are everything.

At 14 kids want to be treated in a more grown up way, which I certainly found hard to adjust to, while also needing the security of clear and fair boundaries. I would be inclined to stop apologising but ask DS1 to stay home for part of a respite day so you can talk openly and honestly about what happened on holiday and strategies for avoiding problems in your relationship in future. It is ok to be a bit vulnerable here.

i expect you are both worried about how things will progress as DS2 gets older and bigger and need to be able to communicate with each other around problems with DS2 behaviour and how it impacts you both.

Dont do what I did when confronted with a very challenging 14 yo DS and let him have too much power and freedom. Kind but firm and fair boundaries are needed, even if he does complain it will make him feel secure.

It sounds like you need respite time to yourself but also to spend some of this time with DS1. Rather than asking if he would like to do something tell him that you would like to spend some time with him and from now on it will be happening, maybe part of the day every other week initially, and offer 3 choices of how that time will be spent. Even if you’re just side by side in a cinema you’re giving him the message that you want to spend time with him and he’s important. Actions speak louder than words, especially with monosyllabic teens.

good luck xx

Reading all the posts about apologies I'm really shocked.
A sullen teenager is enough to try a Saint, you offered time together and he refused. He sounds ghastly to be honest.
So shock and horror you lost your temper. Its about bloody time I think.
It will not kill him to see that you are human, and you have a breaking point. Telling him
to f off, you meant it no more than he did. To be honest, his behaviour is disgraceful. No 14 year old should disrespect his mother like that. And why should you have entertained him? Is he so useless he can't entertain himself.
Do not apologise. Don't show weakness. You have to be stronger than him.
Don't go away again. Why should you. It was no fun for anyone.

Sorry OP, but the irony in this is quite interesting. You (an adult) had enough of being ignored and sworn at, so you shouted and swore at your child. But you would expect better behaviour from him?

I don’t expect it’s easy, the position you’re in, but you can’t really expect anything better from him either. I agree with a Pp that he doesn’t “know deep down” that you love him. Your youngest DS has extremely challenging behaviour and has all your attention given to him, he shows challenging behaviour and is told to fuck off.

You said you don’t know how else to show him you love him - have you asked him?

Despite how the comments above may come across, I actually don’t judge and I really do sympathise that you’re in a difficult situation without any simple solutions. It may be that your relationship is very strained and difficult for years to come until he grows up and genuinely sees what you think he ought to already be able to see. But he deserves the same patience you show your youngest or you will never get there.

I’ve just read her post - some great advice there. OP appears to have respite from care once a week - rare as hen’s teeth these days, but I’m wondering if maybe she should ask for an updated carers assessment, and perhaps a reassessment of DS2’s care needs, as she’s mentioned that things have escalated in the last year and her description upthread of a typical meltdown (I hate that word) seemed brutal.

for those asking can’t someone else help YDS in a meltdown - no. He wouldn’t tolerate anyone else (apart from his carer or his brother but I try my hardest to avoid the latter).

No, sorry, but this shows no understanding of the situation at all. While l don’t for one moment condone his behaviour or the manipulation of the situation, it’s clear that this wasn’t a simple strop - he’s struggling. Everyone is affected by the situation and while there are no easy answers, punishing DS1 for his frustration isn’t the way to go. OP knows that.

Have you ever battled an intransigent ex through family court?

If you have, you'll be aware of the endless time, energy and money it takes. That's not what this family needs.

If you haven't - maybe stop being a judgemental arse?

I might have missed in an earlier post but what ND diagnoses are there and is he medicated? Non stimulant ADHD meds made an enormous difference to my son's meltdowns but stimulant ADHD meds are notorious for making tics worse so generally not suitable for tourettes.

I find that the huge meltdowns usually have a source underlying, and that the surface level reason (sensory etc) is more the trigger than the cause as such. In my childs case school stress / masking at school were the underlying causes leading to smaller things triggering meltdowns.

What sort of respite care does your child get? Is it home based or going to a fun activity they actually enjoy and chose?

Has your older child actually visited the local young carers group? The one local to us do loads of cool teen friendly activities like axe throwing, escape rooms, cinema etc. The focus isn't at all on being a carer but rather escaping it and enjoying doing things they otherwise wouldnt get to try.

I had the feeling this was the case from your earlier posts. You’re his ‘safe’ adult. Gently, l think in time you’ll need to address this, as you’re going to burn out as a carer otherwise. Hopefully as he gets older things will get easier as he learns more coping mechanisms, but at some point he’ll need to start getting used to having other people around him during times of dysregulation because you’re not living in a bubble.

Is there anything you can identify as a specific problem when he’s with is dad ? If he’s masking there’s obviously something going on - or is it that dad simply doesn’t understand the condition, or doesn’t want to ? I’m asking because it seems that if he’s dysregulating with you after every visit, that’s making your life even harder.

His dad is probably right, then - he knows your children much better than anyone else on here does. Say to DS1 that you've apologised, there is nothing more you can do, you're there for him, now you are going to move on.

Is DS2 at a special school? Is it worth talking to them about liaising with therapists etc about techniques that can be used at home so he is less dependent on you? Presumably they manage to keep him reasonably regulated when he is there.

It could also be worth talking to social services about an up to date assessment given the way DS2 has changed, with a view to overnight respite.

What happens if he has a meltdown at school?

I think siblings should be able to opt for foster care if their life is this awful. Why should one child destroy the entire family unit. Surely, if the parent wants to try and live with this day in day out, they should give their other children a choice. It sounds bloody awful and nobody should have to give up their life because of this.

I second what @ThreadGuardDog said - I really do think that this is something you're going to have to change as it's just not sustainable, it's not fair on you, and it's not fair on DS1.

If you died, or were in hospital, or severely unwell, then DS2 would have to tolerate someone else. It is simply NOT true that he can't tolerate anyone else, because frankly, who he tolerates isn't up to him. The most important thing is that he needs to be kept from hurting himself, and anyone of sufficient fitness, who is trained on how to manage him safely, can do that.

I assume when he's not dysregulated you can talk to him and discuss the situation reasonably and intelligently? He doesn't have learning disabilities?

No, of course he can't help having autism and tics, but he can learn to manage himself and his environment to better avoid meltdowns being triggered, and he is going to need to learn to do that if he wants to navigate life - and ideally that should happen sooner, rather than later. You need to support him, not coddle him (and I say this as someone from an ND household). Again, DrRuthGalloway's post is a really good, practical one, with great advice.

This 100%. Those so quick to judge should try walking in OP’s shoes.

What I don't understand is why you'd stop your 14 year old from getting food for the plane and grab the food off of him? Isn't that cruel and not related to what he did wrong? I think I may have mouthed f -off too if you'd stopped me from getting food!

I think I would have dealt with him pushing/hitting his brother as a separate thing (made him apologise and given a consequence) but not allowing him food for the plane seems really harsh. I can see how it would have blown up as teens needs their food!!

So what happen with you were giving DS1 some 1-1 and DS2 went into a meltdown?

But I wouldn't walk in those shoes.

But Op I'm sure your eldest will come around in time. Keep going with trying to connect and he will soon forget about it.

Just found the post mentioning meds. That's a very strong combo so it's possible it's making things worse if his tics/meltdowns becasme worse since then. Arpriprazole in particular can make tics worse. Tourette Scotland/Tourette Action can provide guidance on treatment and also support at school.

Does younger child attend autism support groups or similar? Most areas have something like this and it can be a better form of respite than a carer.

I don't think you would be likely to get more respite. I've got two ND kids and even when one wasn't in school I got no social work budget. I do have a small one now he's at a specialist school but I use it for activities that provide respite rather than a carer. I certainly wouldn't get overnight respite locally even as a single parent.