Brownies incident stopped me singing, starting to see how messed up it was.

[Magenta82]

When I (44) was 8 I went to a big division meet up, not many people from my pack went. There was show put on by another group as part of their Entertainer badge, they played the spoons. Someone then described the award and I thought it sounded like fun. I went back and badgered the leaders until they agreed to do it.

We did a big group show for all the parents and everyone had to do an individual piece as well, some at the show and some on a normal Brownies night. I chose to do it at the show.

I decided to sing from my school hymn book (the blue one with the ugly kids on the front #4 Autumn Days), on my own, in front of everyone with no musical accompliment. The "judges" were 3 quite elderly ladies from some kind of group of retired Brownie leaders or something (trefoil?). They failed me. I didn't get the badge.

Now admittedly I can't carry a tune in a bucket but still! I was basically put off singing for life, gave up trying, if I was so bad I couldn't get a brownie bade I must be the worst in the world.

It seemed unjust at the time, but now I have a child in Squirrels I really just how fucked up it really was.

AIBU

This is horrible! It’s a brownies show not the bloody X factor. How cruel.

There is no sting like rejection aged 8 is there. I'm sorry those horrid old trouts forgot that ❤.

Oh that’s really harsh!

Is this the badge, you go get that badge ! https://ebay.io/m/Lrq4S8

I was put off singing at primary school. The teacher wouldn't let me go to the loo during choir so I went myself in front of everyone.

What a set of absolute bitches!

But that’s the same as all the badges - you actually had to do the work to learn the skill, and be competent in it. You weren’t a singer, and sounds like you didn’t learn how to hit the notes, so… you don’t get the badge. The entertainer badge didn’t need to be singing; you should have learned a skill you could do competently.

I wouldn’t say it that way to an 8 year old obviously, but you’re in your 40s so it’s ok to say it bluntly. Loads of kids don’t achieve brownie badges because they didn’t learn the skill. There was a thread on here last year from a mum really angry that her daughter didn’t get the badge after failing to do the thing competently; she wanted it to be awarded for participating and she was told by almost every poster that she was being unreasonable because you don’t get the badge if you can’t do the skill.

Your parents or brownies leaders should have helped you with the badge by helping you find something you could do confidently and well, rather than let you try at singing when it wasn’t really a natural talent for you.

It is upsetting. But if it’s like any other badge, you need to be able to do it well to achieve the badge. Entertaining is a skill like any other; someone should have used it as a chance to help you learn something new.

Omg OP I don't think I have read something here that has resonated with me so deeply.

Solidarity!

At a similar age I had a very nasty teacher ridicule me and actually ban me from singing. She told me I had to mime. Then all the class would turn and watch me to make sure I wasn't singing out loud even during prayers.

I told my mother and instead of saying that's ridiculous she looked horrified and agreed that I clearly couldn't and shouldn't sing.

For over thirty, yes thirty years I didn't sing out loud and spent many an evening stressing and trying to figure out how to disappear at exactly the time a birthday cake would appear anywhere.

Then I had a baby and began singing to her. My DH teases my terrible singing relentlessly and I do the same back to him. What he doesn't realise is the great reflection on him, us and our family it is that I let him hear my singing voice. Now I sing out of tune and joyfully every chance I get.

Shame on them.

You are right it didn't have to be singing. It was the entertainer badge, not the singing badge, I got up on stage and performed, and judging from the giggles from the parents it was entertaining, just not in the way I intended.

Completely disagree with @Skippyasyermuni . We all got the Entertainer badge for doing our best even if it was pretty rubbish-certainly didn't need to be a competent performer by any objective standard. It was about gaining confidence and having a go, like all the other badges (as I recall, our cookery badge involved warming baked beans by holding a candle underneath an open tin of baked beans, because we had no facilities). Hate to break it to people who still feel proud of their armful of badges 😂

Singing is such a personal thing, OP, and feeling you can't do it is a vicious circle because you then tense up and that makes it even harder. Sorry you had an upsetting experience- you probably have a nicer voice than you think.

They were bitter and twisted. They'd been in the brown bobble brigade for too long. Perhaps you had the ill timed slot right before refreshments and they were thinking about tea urn timings and fruit cake.
I call for an enquiry!

I saw your thread title and was immediately sent back to school when I auditioned for the school choir and was told that I couldn't join because I wasn't good enough.

I didn't sing for years after that to anyone else although I sang in my bedroom because I always loved it and years later here I am as a grown woman singing in a covers band and being complimented by lots of people on my voice and regretting it so much that I never pursued music as a career because actually I think I would have been pretty good.

I think things were pretty harsh at the time that we were children and adults were often unpleasant to kids in a way that we wouldn't be now.

And as a scout leader all I can say is that we will always give the badges to children as long as they try their hardest and have obviously put effort in. Because that's what it's about it's not about being a world-class whatever.

Brownie leader here and I disagree! I will always award a badge if a Brownie has shown she has put the effort in, even if the results aren't great.

That's not to say they get them without meeting the criteria - e.g. if they need to produce 3 paintings but only do 1, I'll tell them they need to go and do more - but if they have done 3 paintings in the styles suggested in the badge book, they'll get a badge, even if they're not going to be hanging in the Louvre any time soon. Likewise any Brownie who is brave enough to stand up and perform in front of the pack will get a badge.

I only withhold badges if a girl has been absent for the relevant meetings, or if they've messed around and not contributed to an activity - particularly when this has safety implications e.g. first aid.

More recent versions of the badge book have their flaws, but have moved away from a focus on achievement to more process-oriented criteria. This annoys me sometimes as the language is woolly and can be hard for girls to understand what they need to do, but it does mean we can respect their efforts more. We don't need to be trashing the confidence of 8 year olds.

@Magenta82 I'm sorry this is still bothering you. Well done for having the initiative to request a challenging badge and putting on a show though!

I’m glad I went to brownies and school and everything else before they started participation awards - everyone getting the award despite not doing well in a task if just something I can never agree with.

I would steer my kid into performing in a way they could actually do with success. I wouldn’t get angry if they didn’t get an award when they didn’t do well.

I am a rainbows leader and both rainbows and brownies get their badges for just showing up and taking part. Neither myself or any leaders I know in any section would deny a child a badge for not being competent in a skill. They are children. There for fun!

Im sorry this happened to you. It should not have done

I was at the sort of school where you were asked not to sing hymns in assemblies if the teachers didn’t like your voice. I finally conquered that one by having a course of singing lessons in my 30s, and joining a Gilbert and Sullivan society. I’m not exactly Maria Callas, but I can hold a tune, and because I have a low-ish voice, I can usually sing the tenor part, which is very useful because there’s often a shortage of men.

Still haunted by a similar experience, childhood is so bloody hard at time and somethings cut so deep you never forget them.

I know someone who has not sung out loud in public since she was told she was no good at singing as a child. She goes to Church weekly and mimes.

At my primary school we had a choir - we all had to audition by singing a few lines. Out of around 60 kids, all but 8 got in. They were made to do drama or crafts instead. Even then I remember thinking it was so cruel as those kids were embarrassed and probably carry that memory with them. And it wasn't like the majority of us were great singers - adding 8 bad singers wouldn't have made a noticeable impact.

Those Brown Owls took no prisoners.
I still think of others before myself, and do a good turn every day ( age 62).

As a singer and singing teacher, it breaks my heart when children are told not to sing. It’s actually quite rare for someone to be tone deaf; some people take a little longer to develop their listening skills.
Anyway, re the OP - it’s an Entertainer badge, you got up in front of an audience and entertained them! Those old ladies should be ashamed of themselves!

Wow what horrible old women they were!

The thought that they sat their judging your singing ability rather than appreciating your confidence and judging your ability to perform make me a bit mad on your behalf OP!

You achieved the badge - you planned and delivered your song. There's no specific rule that the notes need to be pitch perfect fgs! How many 8 year olds sound like Leona Lewis anyway?

This book?

Total empathy from me - I was made to MIME in the school nativity as my singing was so bad.

I was 7.

I mean its brownies not the olympics. Its for fun. If a child has put the effort in, done the activity I dont see why they can't get a badge

The badge isn't for being an amazing singer, its for planning some form of entertainment and performing it to an audience

@Goditsmemargaret - OMG, your post made me emotional! Especially the bit about singing to your baby 😭 Happy people sing, whether it's in tune doesn't matter x

OP, selfishly I'm so pleased to hear that Squirrels has been a positive experience for your son or daughter.
I'm a Squirrel leader and we reward effort and being brave enough to put yourself forward. Any of our drey would get a standing ovation if they were ballsy enough to sing Infront of the whole group.

Scouts is not an examination board, our purpose is to gently challenge children to enable them to grow new skills, to be proud and to develop as positive members of a wider community.
Our purpose is not to (literally) judge children and cut them off at the knees when they're doing their best.