Brownies incident stopped me singing, starting to see how messed up it was.

[Magenta82]

When I (44) was 8 I went to a big division meet up, not many people from my pack went. There was show put on by another group as part of their Entertainer badge, they played the spoons. Someone then described the award and I thought it sounded like fun. I went back and badgered the leaders until they agreed to do it.

We did a big group show for all the parents and everyone had to do an individual piece as well, some at the show and some on a normal Brownies night. I chose to do it at the show.

I decided to sing from my school hymn book (the blue one with the ugly kids on the front #4 Autumn Days), on my own, in front of everyone with no musical accompliment. The "judges" were 3 quite elderly ladies from some kind of group of retired Brownie leaders or something (trefoil?). They failed me. I didn't get the badge.

Now admittedly I can't carry a tune in a bucket but still! I was basically put off singing for life, gave up trying, if I was so bad I couldn't get a brownie bade I must be the worst in the world.

It seemed unjust at the time, but now I have a child in Squirrels I really just how fucked up it really was.

AIBU

Brutal!

I have a family member that sent a pic off to Tony Hart who apparently promised to send all pics back if they weren't featured. It didn't get featured, and never got returned and she was really upset. She said it put her off drawing for life (although I think she was saying this with a bit of a silly twinkle in her eye rather than actually having been affected for more than a couple of weeks).

That’s awful! I think the fact you got up, with a prepared piece and actually did it that is enough, we’re not all bloody Barbara Streisand!
id put it behind you and think they were a bunch of power crazed political dickhead who shouldn’t be doing such jobs

They were wrong to fail you, OP (well, unless you sang Three Old Ladies Locked In The Lavatory). Quite a lot of old people could be very harsh and blunt in the 80s.

As an aside, those kids on the hymn book look like they're about to steal some poor bugger's dinner money!

I agree. She should have got it for having the courage to perform. It was just an entertainer brownie badge for an 8 year old, not entry to a Conservatoire.

I never sing in public, or in front of anyone, rarely even when by myself. I overheard my Mother phoning my teacher (I was 8) to ask if she was sure I should join the school choir (open to everyone!) as I couldn’t sing. Strange what sticks with you.

Same. When I was in Brownies and Guides earning a badge meant something and you could wear it on your sleeve with pride. Now, apparently, it just means you tried. I never earned my knitting badge because, though I tried very hard, I simply couldn't knit and still can't. Nowadays I'd get it just because I wanted it, apparently.

At what age should children be introduced to the idea that they aren't good at something?

Then shouldn't it have been a courage badge?

And you should have got the badge, you’d put the work into preparing a piece and got up on stage to perform it. It wasn’t a graded music exam.

I remember being really excited to join the school choir at age 7. My brother was older and was in the choir and I was always hearing he had a beautiful voice. We had to audition and I failed and was told I was a 'growler'. I sobbed my heart out and didn't sing for years. Still mime at weddings. To add insult to injury, when some members of the choir didn't want to be in it anymore I was asked if I wanted to join now...No Thank You!....You said I couldn't sing, remember??
I love singing on my own and at rock concerts where it's loud 😆

Ha! At the age of 10 I was told to mime at the school Christmas concert because I (allegedly) sang flat. (The same teacher introduced the "junior orchestra" with the words "They're not very good.")

I wasn't particularly bothered but it did ensure that I never sang again. About 50 years later I mentioned this in passing to a friend who is a piano teacher and she was sceptical. So she tested me very thoroughly and I was spot on. Her theory was that at that age almost all children - particularly boys - tend to sing sharp.

Not quite the same, but I was small and had wonky eyesight so PE teachers treated me badly. When there was a team game I was never chosen -- I was told to sit and watch. 'You can't run' etc. Eventually I believed it.
Around 50 years later I completed the Couch25K program. I cried with happiness and vindication when I remembered Miss Rice's shrewish face telling me I was no good and I couldn't run.
PE teachers took away my joy of running until I was mid-50s. Please continue to sing! x

I had a similar experience at school, yr 4 in our class play- I was given the leading role of Joseph (and his technicoloured dream coat) no auditions necessary but looking back I had the tape and knew all the words which probably got me the gig…
rehearsals and a music teacher walks in as I was swinging an bluntly says ‘she’s flat’ and shakes her head at me and walks off. Never got over it, cried out of the play with a fake illness and never sung in public again 😢

You're overthinking the importance of a brownie badge for an 8 year old who put the effort in. It's not going to give her an unfair advantage when applying for jobs.

These things really stay with you - I so wanted to be in the school choir. I tried really hard - I had to sing 'Oh my darling Clementine' as a solo in front of the class. I didn't get in but to be fair I am a dreadful singer and tuneless....

Since then I have only ever felt confident singing to my babies as they seemed to like it and are non judgemental.

That's it!

It's disgusting, it's a hobby, and it should encourage kids.

Schools need a certain level. Brownie? As long as you have put the work and are doing what is expected. It's important for the child. No one cares in life who has badges and who hasn't.

Showed up, went through the performance, that should be applauded and deserves the badge.

Yes they could. I was born in 71 so remember it well. An elderly person in the 80s could have been born in Victorian times just about. So not surprising I guess.

Why on earth did you choose acapella singing if you can't carry a tune- they were honour bound to fail you- your fault for putting yourself up for it.

I think they were always primarily participation (+ effort) badges (I'm 50). You didn't get the knitting badge because presumably you didn't actually produce anything if you didn't learn to knit. Very different to OP who actually did the thing required.

There's a place for rewarding effort and a place for rewarding achievement. Brownies is the former and always has been, or at least since I was a brownie.

Bit harsh. The Come and Praise kids weren’t ugly they were just blue!

Sorry you had this experience OP. I was told my legs were ugly by a ballet teacher and I have rarely ever got my legs out again.

Growing up in the 80s/90s was harsh. I was kicked out of ballet aged 5 because I wasn’t good enough and making progress as quickly as the other girls. I really tried but I have a mild physical disability which made aspects of it difficult. I remember being really upset about it and it definitely put me off dancing. In primary school I also used to be made to sit out of recorder and netball lessons as again I wasn’t good enough compared to my peers. Absolutely no thought to children’s self esteem back then!

That’s terrible.
Im 57 and when I was a Brownie (and then Guide) we always got badges if we did a bit of work or put some effort in. Didn’t have to be the best result.
It was all about participating/trying something new/learning something; and standing on a stage singing solo is certainly participating!
How awful of those women to “fail” you like that!

This makes me grateful for my mum who told me in no uncertain terms from as young as i can remember that I am a terrible singer and never to let anyone hear me sing. I would never have put myself in your situation and I don’t blame the judges - but if I do think your parents let you down a little!

Exactly the same.
I was told not to sing the hymns in assembly out loud and I wasn't allowed in the choir age 7. Istill feel the shame and I'm 68.

Brownie badge is a little different because you are supposed to learn the skill. Either the brown owl should have steered you to another kind of performance or the judges should have said to practice a bit more and try again next week.

Of course that was horrible and wicked of them. However let’s not forget you as an adult have just called 4 kids ugly, that’s not a kind thing to do either