Brownies incident stopped me singing, starting to see how messed up it was.

[Magenta82]

When I (44) was 8 I went to a big division meet up, not many people from my pack went. There was show put on by another group as part of their Entertainer badge, they played the spoons. Someone then described the award and I thought it sounded like fun. I went back and badgered the leaders until they agreed to do it.

We did a big group show for all the parents and everyone had to do an individual piece as well, some at the show and some on a normal Brownies night. I chose to do it at the show.

I decided to sing from my school hymn book (the blue one with the ugly kids on the front #4 Autumn Days), on my own, in front of everyone with no musical accompliment. The "judges" were 3 quite elderly ladies from some kind of group of retired Brownie leaders or something (trefoil?). They failed me. I didn't get the badge.

Now admittedly I can't carry a tune in a bucket but still! I was basically put off singing for life, gave up trying, if I was so bad I couldn't get a brownie bade I must be the worst in the world.

It seemed unjust at the time, but now I have a child in Squirrels I really just how fucked up it really was.

AIBU

I was curious about how it worked as it was possible to fail badges back in the day.

But then being undiagnosed AuDHD back when I was in brownies and guides meant that I didn’t have the ‘enriching’ experience you describe.

About 3 programme changes ago, badges were indeed somewhat more prescriptive, and were supposed to be assessed "externally" (i.e. not by the unit's own leaders) - hence the Trefoil Guild ladies assessing and "failing" the OP. So it's quite possible that it was harder to get certain badges than it might be now. I'm not sure that was a good thing, and it certainly wouldn't be popular now.

But that system changed more than 20 years ago, as it wasn't really workable and disadvantaged girls in less well-off areas who might not have many available options for assessors. It's nearly all done "in house" now, with the leaders who know the girls best.

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your time in Guiding, but don't blame it all on ND - we have many ND girls and leaders, diagnosed and not, so it clearly works for some!

If it makes a difference to all the people saying it was because I didn't "learn a skill" or put enough effort in I didn't just "sing a song I'd sung in assembly a few times".

I picked it because I loved it, it was my favourite song that I had access to. It was the late 1980s/early 1990s. This was pre-internet so song lyrics weren't easy to access unless you bought the album and read the tiny writing in the book. We weren't a musical family so a school hymn makes more sense than it would now.

I also practiced and learnt the words by heart, I sung it too the audience with a big performance smile on my face, I didn't just stand there mumbling it from the book.

The only feedback I was given was that the judges didn't think I was good enough. There was no "work harder on this X thing" or "you need to try Y".

I would like to thank everyone for the comments though, they were all helpful as they allowed me to reframe things I my head. Especially the negative ones as previously I had found it hard to understand how anyone could be that critical of a child.

Then I certainly have more sympathy for you OP. But maybe put more context in the opening post next time.
Did your brownie leader discuss the outcome with you? Did she encourage you not to give up on singing?
Do you sing in tune now? That's something that can change over time.

I didn't put more context because I honestly wasn't expecting a debate on the merits of awarding effort.

It was about the way it affected me. Humiliation is an emotion that has a huge impact on children and it honestly changed me. It knocked my confidence, I stopped singing, I made myself smaller. My mum tried to play down the importance of the badge and praise the effort but the humiliation stayed with me.

In answer to your question about my singing proficiency now, its not great, because I stopped trying, I was too embarrassed to sing in public. Why would I inflict my singing on others when it was so bad it wasn't even worthy of a fucking Brownies interest badge.

I'm so sorry they were cocks.

Tempus fugit though. Are they dead yet?

Lol!

I'm pretty sure they are unless they really did make some kind of evil pact with the devil and stole children's confidence in exchange for life! It was 35 years ago and they were pretty old then!

It sounds like there really are some wonderful guiding leaders from what they say on here and I am so pleased to hear it.

That's a whole other discussion topic. Does there come a point when we take responsibility for our own insecurities and have another go?

My grandfather never sang. He couldn't sing in tune and said that he was tone deaf. He was married to a musical woman, who played the piano, and he discouraged it. He was criticised in his schooldays, too, and wasn't allowed to sing during school assemblies. But what I don't know is whether he was someone who was incapable of singing in tune, or whether, given time and some teaching, he would have been able to. Apparently some people really are tone deaf, and can't learn to sing in tune.

I was once in a choir (an unauditioned choir) where one person sang out of tune, and it was awful. She appeared to have no idea that she wasn't singing in tune, and it really spoilt the choir for everyone else. Everyone was too polite to tell her that she wasn't singing in tune. She was in her twenties. Had everyone always been too kind to tell her, or did she know and not care?

You say in your opening post that: "I can't carry a tune in a bucket". I'm not saying that you would have been that person if you'd carried on singing. But I think that telling you that you weren't singing in tune was the right thing to do. It should have been done more sensitively, and by your brownie leader. A child who can't sing in tune shouldn't get to the stage of singing in public - it's not fair. As you were quite young, it's quite possible that you would have learned to sing in tune over time, though not guaranteed. Why not get some singing lessons now, and see how it goes?

I think the judges were put in a difficult position. They were asked to judge the children and to award a pass or fail. They were faced with a child who sang out of tune. I think that failing you was an understandable decision, and perhaps the right decision. If you want to blame someone, I would probably blame your brownie leader or your parents, who presumably knew that you couldn't sing in tune, even if you didn't know it yourself, and let you perform a song.