AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

Yes, I can concur with you on this. We haven't recruited any international nurses since Covid, when we simply had no choice.

We are on our 4th cohort of students to qualify into this dreadful state of affairs. None of which are international students. Many nurses haven’t bothered to collect their PIN and gone on to seek (better paid, better conditions and more respected) employment opportunities.

We will go round in a big circle, once again relying on international medics to back fill positions because uk trained nurses retrained in other fields.

Their choice

What a lovely utopia you must live in. You don’t have to look very far to see that our culture is not as warm and fuzzy as you pretend it to be.

Did anybody answer this poster? I thought it was interesting that everyone seems to have made an assumption that the racism is mainly or entirely from white to other demographics and it brought me up short on my own assumption (which I admit was the same).

It may be true, of course, but has anyone actually got the data?

I have certainly witnessed racism directed between members of different minority groups in this country that would make the average white Brit blush (though not in a medical context).

I wouldn’t ever refuse treatment based on the colour of the Dr’s skin. There may be some circumstances where I would prefer a female Dr but if that was not offered I don’t know if i would go so far as to refuse treatment. The colour of their skin however seems totally irrelevant to me. I would however have concerns over strong accents as I really struggle to understand them. But again that wouldn’t be based on the colour of their skin as I struggle with strong regional accents as well as strong foreign accents. I think that if dealing with a serious medical issue and I was struggling to understand the practitioner then i may ask for an alternative but I would feel ridiculously awkward and be so apologetic about it

Dire English is an increasing issue that I have come across as a carer and patients/ carers most definitely should be able to ask for staff with better use and understanding of English.

You would do a mental capacity assessment, implement a DOLS and treat in their best interests.

Treating mentally unwell patients is not a new field for medics.

I also think mental illness is an exception - that person has no control over what they say or do and therefore cannot fairly be held accountable.

Sure you did.

I think if the NHS panders to these racists then that sends an awful message that this is ok. It really They have two choices, get treated by whoever or don't.

This needs to be stood up to. It's disgusting.

It’s not warm and fuzzy however it’s a world away from the ingrained cultural and religious beliefs in some other countries as regards some vulnerable sections of society.

My MIL was in a rehabilitation facility. She needed help with toiletting, showering, dressing etc. One day I went to visit and she was distressed. She couldn’t articulate what was wrong so I went to speak to the unit manager. It seems like she had been told off that morning and a racist incident had been recorded against her. According to the manager, she had become upset when a member of staff had gone into her room late at night to check on her and take her to the toilet and had frightened her, which she told staff later that morning when they went in to wake her up. She was asked to describe the person and said he was a big black man. The female staff member assumed she was upset because he was black, whereas in reality she was upset because a large man she had never seen before had woken her up to take her to the toilet!
They couldn’t see that she didn’t want a man attending to her personal care, and jumped to the conclusion that she was racist. Her experience may well be recorded as a racist incident whereas in fact it certainly was not.

Yes, this is true. My own Indian community is often very racist towards black people.
Not ok. Racism exists in every community.

I don't think racist patients can be left to die though. Not sure what can be done.

Do you think the NHS shouldn’t treat rapists, murderers, paedophiles too?

I agree. Poor communication is a very real problem.

I have complications after breast cancer surgery and am being seen by breast specialist nurses every 2 days. 2 are white British and 1 is from the Caribbean but they're all female. It's quite intimate treatment and although I wouldn't refuse to be seen by a male nurse I would be uncomfortable.

Which is why I said to a lesser degree...

I once had to deal with a situation in my class where two black children were accusing each other of being racist to each other - one child was Nigerian, the other Somali and boy oh boy did they argue about who was being the most racist! They were arguing about their packed lunches!!!

Win win

Wrt sex, I did say to a lesser degree as with regards to women's health (and male) that's not unreasonable.

Really? You mean women yes?
Have you not seen men in this country? Incels, Andrew Tate and many other influencers? Child sex abuse on the rise? Women's abuse is also increasing.

Oh but no, not acceptable in your book to have someone from another country to (kindly) look after us. I think you'll find faith has little to do with medicine.

Is this right, that a nurse from india will get paid less than, say, a nurse who has trained and qualified in the uk? I can’t believe that is correct because there are union negotiated national pay scales which should be applied. Anyone genuinely know from experience (rather than hazarding a guess)?

If they refuse to be treated by the allocated NHS staff, then yes.

Nobody is arguing that people should be denied treatment because they hold abhorrent views or because they have committed crimes etc. The central principle of universal health care is that it is open to everyone. Even those who don't deserve it.

People are simply stating that, if a patient refuses treatment because they don't like the skin colour of the person treating them, then there should be consequences to that choice and no alternative should be offered.

There are signs everywhere in uk healthcare settings. What I cannot understand is how it is not being tackled by management.

The only problem I have with recruiting staff from overseas is in circumstances like my parents. In their 90s with hearing loss and dementia- then staff are told to mask up (has happened in the spring). They just cannot understand the nursing staff and carers due to strong accents. However many times I pointed it out to staff it did not make a difference. The only thing we could do was to spend as much time as possible in hospital with DPs.

I saw about the racist comments on breakfast tv. I think it was beyond accent, but this is part of the wider picture.

Edited: I should have read the whole thread before posting. It seems that others have made the same point.

Anyone who refuses treatment from an NHS professional because of their race should be told that they have lost their ability to access the NHS on that occasion, should be offered no alternative and reminded that they are welcome to go and pay for private treatment instead where they can see the healthcare professional of their choice...

We should not indulge racists and xenophobes in their delusions and they deserve zero tolerance.

While NHS staff deserve respects and a supportive work environment.