AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

I would expect the child to be examined by a woman. Does a woman doctor now have to be a different skin colour than the rapist?

I’ve literally just posted exactly that scenario. It has zero to do with race for me it’s about respecting people’s consent over who intimately touches their body. It applies to men, women and children of both sexes. It applies to English people, Scottish people, Polish people, Pakistani people, Ugandan people, Cambodian people, Israeli and Palestinian people, Russian and Ukrainian people.

Me too if female, but I didn’t actually say it was a girl, did I? Because that wasn’t the point that I’m making. I’ve already made that point.

I’m sure you realise that men sometimes abuse boys but that in and of itself might not mean he wanted an intimate exam from a woman.

Because systems are crap and some people are crap. There needs to be nuance otherwise we get the “there was no rape as it’s an all female ward “ kind of shit. Someone is abusive(while having capacity),racially or otherwise, unless an emergency they should be refused care at that hospital/gp/pharmacy etc. they can go someplace else. Eventually, they’ll hopefully learn to keep their mouth shut. They reject treatment on basis of race, again , unless urgent, they wait until there is one available, if there is one. If they have capacity , they can choose to put their shitty “principles” above their health.

I mean even if the child was a boy, 98% of sexual abuse is carried out by men, so I am assuming women doctors will be best.

Not your place to decide for him is it? I’m sorry to spoil your gotcha.

I can only imagine you don’t have any further argument. Post traumatic stress disorder can mean that it causes unbearable distress for the person with the trigger and will also be distressing for the HCP.

Such a situation would require careful management from the medical staff involved and is in no way the same as the racism the op is referring to and therefore not really relevant to the to the discussion? Should we also agree that situations like this probably aren't happening on a daily basis ?

It is relevant because it may not be clear that that is what is happening. I fully agree it should be carefully managed. You think PTSD from violence or sexual abuse is extremely rare?

True, it's up to the child. But I would assume that maybe they might assign a female doctor.
What gotcha?

I guess it's then ok for me to say I want a non-white doctor and HCP at my GP. After all, we have had Lucy Letby, Beverley Allitt, Harold Shipman...plenty of dodgy white doctors and HCPs.

It's assumed by so many on this thread that white doctors are beyond reproach in any way. Accent wise, culture wise, not looking like rapists, respectful of everybody. Yeah no.

i think the other, probably more problematic issue than the small number of patients who may have valid reason for a request regarding the race of the HCP treating them.

That issue is that there is always a risk of misattribution of racism behind the reason for requesting an alternative HCP- especially if an aggressive stance of actively looking for examples of racism/staff being asked to be vigilant for such behaviour (or worried about being seen not to be being proactive about it) is being pursued. The potential consequences of that for the patient, the HCP’s and non-clinical staff making that decision/enforcing it and the wider impact such a case will have is something that should not be underestimated.

And it will happen. The really blatantly racist patients are easy enough to spot- but there is a grey area where it might be thinly veiled racism or a genuine misunderstanding- or, dare I say it, a very tiny number of cases where there a patient is deliberately falsely accused (e.g. a deflection to undermine a valid complaint). As I said before- it’s the less clear cut cases where HCP’s/non-clinical staff are vulnerable if things go wrong as a result of delay in care/refusal to provide care, where it is later determined that the patient was wrongly accused of being racist. We will be hung out to dry by the NHS if that happens, believe me.

Should non white people refusing treatment from HCP of other races also “have consequences”? these are all valid questions and this is an AIBU.

Not by me, I’m not sure why you’re making these odd assumptions.

Indeed. It's a deflection to argue that people can abuse a Pakistani doctor who looks like a Pakistani in Rotherham.

The mythical Thai child abuse victim forced to endure a white doctor? How common is this? Racial abuse is far more common.

PTSD triggers from rape aren’t about whether people “look like rapists” 🙄

Well yes, it’s a hypothetical. I haven’t once said verbal abuse was ok and I posted a link to a case where a black female nurse was severely verbally abused and threatened by a racist patient.

It’s nice that people feel that they can be so glib about it all though.

Well, those are the examples put forth on this thread.🙄

It's nice that people feel they can be racist without consequence.

Who is being racist? People are telling the op that there are things she hasn’t considered. Where is the racism?

Of course I don't think it's rare. But being unable to be treated by a doctor of a certain race or nationality due to that is not something hcps will be dealing with on a daily basis.

I have no idea why a thread about HCP receiving racist abuse has become a desperate race to find all the reasons someone could excusably be racist. Given the massive rise in the racism people are dishing out to NHS workers do you think they are all PTSD sufferers due to Asian/black people?

I summarised it upthread in the morning. Perhaps you haven't read those comments.
I am not going to repeat myself.

People are pointing out why this simplistic idea that the op came up with isn’t a good one. That’s the premise of the thread. It’s not just about the undoubted wrongness of racism.

No, I didn’t. I’ll take your word for it, but I’d appreciate you not vaguely accusing people of racism quoting me, thanks.