AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

Trauma is a very wide term and can be misused by racists, misogynists, sexists and homophobes. How do we cater to all of them?

Has anyone ever read of or experienced a doctor being rejected because he or she was white? I think not. All this BS is for minorities.

This "choosing" a HCP based on characteristics is the WEIRDEST thing i have discovered about Brits. I have had a male HCP conduct an internal vaginal ultrasound (and we chatted about which unis his son was looking at attending) and a male HCP perform scans over my naked chest when I was having heart issues during pregnancy. I have had doctors of all nationalities and ethnicities perform medical investigations and procedures. In no instance was there anything awkward, uncomfortable, or "weird" about the interactions - they were professionals and I was a patient.

OP, fully with you about if you refuse with no rationale (I.e. experiencing incompetent care) or simply because you don't "want" them, then you are refusing treatment.

Why on earth would anyone refuse to be treated by non white staff? Are Irish staff ok? Polish? Or, gods forbid, Italians?

It was because you said the following, "it’s pretty obvious from the quotes in the article that these were statements from white people, calling people ‘dirty foreigners’".

It sounded to me a though you thought only a white person could ever consider a minority ethnicity in this country a "foreigner" (i.e. nobody with black or brown skin could possibly consider themselves naive enough to consider another ethnicity a foreigner).

It sounds like instead what you meant was that you're comfortable just assuming that those particular idioms are 'things white people say'. I think you're on dodgy (dare I say prejudiced) ground there, as was I initially.

But, as you say, the assumption is subjective. I'd rather know than assume but the information doesn't seem to be available and I continue to think it's odd that they specified the race of the perpetrator in only one of five examples given. I expect we'll never know!

The two are not the same.

Unless you are saying 'It's not all non-white people but it's mainly non-white people', which I assume you are not?

As friedaklein says above, one stance is legal, the other is illegal. You are allowed to ask for a same sex doctor; this may or may not be feasible. You quite rightly cannot stipulate the ethnicity of your doctor.

My ex was an HCA in A&E. He was subjected to racist abuse on several occasions, told things like " I don't want your filthy black hands on me" and "get back to your own country" (he is Black British and born here so couldn't oblige!)- absolutely foul behaviour , there is meant to be a policy of zero tolerance as there should be but denying treatment is unethical

Exactly.

Nice, so for people who have trauma from child abuse, we have to accept a man or get to the back of the queue? How very compassionate and such a deep understanding of CPTSD.

We got it, you refuse a non-white doctor by playing the "it's a man" card, it's still racism.

Another reason to refuse to discriminate against doctors based on their colour, religion or sex and gender.

As above, if anyone refuse treatment, they can't have been needing it that desperately in the first place. There are enough documented cases of the most violently racists and antisemitic haters who famously gratefully accepted help from a black or a jewish doctor.

In my former GP surgery we had a trainee from Pakistan. Any patient "not wanting the black doctor" got a warning letter and was kicked off if they repeated it. We had to give the poor ickle buckle a second chance apparently according to the defence union.

In my practice in Scotland the racists have gotten wise to it - they either got ask for old doctor who is known to be white and don't ask for Dr Mohammed. "I just prefer Dr white, or DT Mohammed told me I was responsible for my health and it's no' fair".

It's beyond me, I can't understand it. I have tried and find it incomprehensible.

The NHS kills people daily through negligence. I will be celebrating the day it goes under, not too far away now it is unsustainable. It also isn't free the average tax payer contributes c£4k pa to pay for it!!!

Unless you are saying 'It's not all non-white people but it's mainly non-white people', which I assume you are not?

You don't have to assume this as I clearly didn't post it.

So, I’m a black woman who is three generations British. I’m also Jewish. I’m pretty certain I know that British comes in different flavours, so you take your assumptions about what I think somewhere else.

The language quoted reads to me as white tropes, not the kinds of tropes my mother heard from Asian women growing up, for example.

Requesting a same sex HCP for intimate care is racism and playing " it's a man' card? Hoo boy.

I agree anyone really ill will take care from anyone, so I guess those who don't need urgent care and want a white doctor
can be shoved to the back of the list.

Anyway, I have laboured my point and must stop.

This is a brilliant idea on a MN thread but practically it wouldn’t work. Trauma, dementia, neurological conditions can make people say things they don’t mean or wouldn’t say if their social barriers were working.

Then there are complexities past white and non white. Could a Jewish patient refuse treatment from a doctor with a Muslim name or wearing a Palestinian lanyard. What about a member of the LGBT community, could they make judgements if they think a doctor may come from a country where being gay is illegal?
It becomes more and more complicated, with layers of prejudice we don’t understand when we have communities from other countries bringing their own preferences with them.
If you don’t want that doctor, fine. However, you may have to wait until another is available, you will be treated.

Good for you. Are you the bench mark then? Because I was sexually abused by my dad from the age of 3, and I very much do feel the need for a female doctor for intimate care. Is that ok, or do we only go by what works for you?

I think feeling frightened or uncomfortable or intimidated by white men due to your experience would be a shame but understandable. Reactions like that are generally involuntary and you should of course be accommodated if at all possible. Not least because it's best for all concerned (and mainly the patient, whose needs should come first, within reason) that the patient is made to feel a calm and comfortable as possible.

I am a British born, mixed race person. I absolutely detest racism and would wholeheartedly agree that if someone refuses to be treated or cared for by an NHS staff member due to the colour of their skin, that this is racism and something that technically in the eyes of the law is a hate crime.
The problem NHS staff face is that by withholding care due to this, this actually risks their registration and career as nurses and doctors based on their oath to "do no harm", which withholding, would potentially do harm. Even if the reason is because they are a victim of a hate crime. So it leaves the NHS staff in a very grey area!

HOWEVER! I will say that recruitment of foreign nurses or doctors is hit and miss sometimes. I went to hospital with a relative last year and they were cared for by a very kind, Indian nurse, who clearly loved their job and were very capable. But my relative couldn't understand 95% of what she was saying to her. The nurses English was barely understandable and the few words that could be recognised were extremely difficult to understand due to her heavy indian accent. My relative is married to a black man and certainly is not racist. But after 2 days of being cared for by this nurse, my relative knew nothing about what was happening or even what was wrong, as she could not understand the nurse due to her poor English. In the end my relative was forced to ask for a different nurse, not because she was Indian, but because she was completely in the dark about what was going on and couldn't communicate with the nurse.. to support this my nurse friend has reported similar scenarios of foreign staff being employed with very poor English. Obviously this does not excuse actual racism, but I can see how this scenario may be interpreted as racism.

This is identity politics interfering with clinical needs/care.
”wait for the next available….” Like you’re picking a table at a restaurant.
It’s pathetic.

That you Nigel?

But yours is an obvious example where medical need would need to be considered - a genuine trauma history. This is already considered (or should be, things do go wrong).

No more than the pp who implied we should all feel as she does.

This kind of trite devaluing of people’s comments is hateful.

If someone refuses treatment on these grounds there should be no alternative offered. Leave the hospital or have security escort you out