AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

This is nothing to do with the thread. You do not have a legal right to a same sex practitioner, hospitals are not single sex spaces.

Yes. But it would still be racism. You can say it’s trauma induced racism but still racism.

I am asking if the OP thinks that its ok to refuse treatment to someone whose response maybe truame based.

Without knowing the history of the person and reason for their reaction, assuming that what someone is being racist is wrong as would denying them teatment.

But British people have different coloured skin.

You also seem to be under the misapprehension that British people aren't getting jobs because people abroad are 'taking' the opportunity away from them. Can't speak for other industries but when talking about senior specialist medical and health care professional roles, we often struggle to recruit, and have to advertise jobs multiple times. I knew of a post recently that was vacant for a year. No one applied. Or they applied and withdraw their application. It was advertised multiple times.

People think there is a jobs shortage, but in the health sector, yes there are recruitment freezes in some Trusts, but also, there is a real shortage of specialists seeking employment in the NHS. The NHS would be in a far worse situation than it is now if only British people were employed

If this is how the OP suggests, it’s awful.

Playing devils advocate, there are a lot of people in my local hospital that moved to the UK for work. One of them is my consultant, he’s great at his job and I would never want to move to another one BUT we do something struggle with communication. English isn’t his first language, when I’m worried I talk to quickly….could it be to do with things like that rather than skin colour?

Via web chat, usually.

I would not - but fortunately it is not a problem for me because my health authority makes it clear that mammograms are only carried out by female staff.

Sex is a very different factor.

Race - you go to the back of the queue if you demand to be treated by a white person. Let’s see how long it takes people to grow up when waiting for even longer or paying to go private (and no guarantee of seeing only white staff there) are the only options.

I’m a survivor of rape and DA and don’t feel the need to refuse treatment from a male doctor purely because of his sex.

Yes. And neither should people have the right to ask for a white doctor, unless they can't understand accents. Regardless of trauma.

On the flip side, our 'gold standard' NHS trained staff - a description that is not necessarily supported by any evidence - do have a tendency to protect each other and the system above the patient... Inevitable really as the structure of the NHS tends to lead to doctors that are adaptable across a broad range of specialities and good at managing complex cases with limited resources, but defensive of crticism or questioning.

For surgery you'd be better off in Germany because they have better processes and training, for primary care and training you'd be better off in the Netherlands and for cutting edge technolgy you'd be better off in the US.

One important thing that is missed when considering the benefit of overseas doctors is their willingness, until recently, to shine a light on poor practice, and even by whistle blowing, because they have experience of how things could or should be done and have not been indoctrinated by, or just become blind, to the 'NHS way' of doing things. The FUD spread by the BMA and others around IMGs however has lead to a drop in the number of whistleblowing events...which is not because the hospitals have improved but because doctors fear losing their jobs and their immigration status.

Fair enough.

This is not ok. If a man said to a female radiographer performing an intimate exam “oh at least I have a pretty nurse!” People here would be outraged.

I too am an immigrant and I find white British to be THE most racist, even those who don't think they are but are condescending and patronising to non-white and immigrant people.

You are talking about a billion people, I am talking about someone that has had a truamatic experience that has had a knock on effect that affects their daily life because they are scared of a group of people due to their personal experience and what was done to them.

You seem happy to deny a person treatment because of what they have been through,. you are further penalising a person for being the victim of what they have been through.

Someone upthread gave the example of an elderly man with dementia who had previously been a POW in Japan being extremely distressed when being treated by HCPs who reminded him of that time. Do you really think he should just have had to put up with it?

Edit: and by “it” I mean constant retraumatising.

I agree with the first part, accents are irrelevant. People need to learn to use their words if they don’t understand something.

Oh yes, a very niche scenario which doesn’t in any way represent the substance of the article.

But the pp has said nobody with trauma should be able to request different HCPs. Trauma is always going to be individual.

Most of the comments in the article (I’m excluding only the one about accent, as I don’t think this is always racist) are pure racism and obviously shouldn’t be tolerated. But IMO there will always be genuine exceptions.

Ppl are using really extreme niche examples to justify words like " You monkey" and " I don't want my gf to be treated by an Asian".
Come on.

And the examples cited here are never against white doctors. Why?
As I said, I have been assaulted ( not raped) by white men. Would it be ok for me to refuse all white doctors, men and women?

They should go to the back of the queue in my opinion. If they don't want a doctor/medical practitioner of colour they can go back to the very bottom of the waiting list. Similarly for those in hospital, they can go to the back of the queue and wait hours for a white person to treat them. Medical staff should be allowed to decline treatment to the cretins who racially abuse them too. It would soon sort out the bigots.

Yes. Based on clinical needs. NHS is not a bespoke service provider. Should my grandfather have refused all interactions with German people after his boat was persistently torpedoed on the Arctic convoys?

I already answered that.

Yes, if it would cause you additional trauma to be treated by a white doctor.

Yes, if was causing him additional trauma.

You can’t seriously expect someone with dementia to be rational about things?

You know British doesnt mean white right?

Does it cause you asdditional truama to see a white Dr (male or female)?
If the answer is yes then you should be able to see a different Dr.