AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

trained British medical staff are leaving to get better paid jobs in other countries. They just don’t want to be paid the low nhs wages when they can get paid twice as much in other countries.
if you want to refuse medical treatment for any reason or request another dr then think that’s ok, it’s your body. We don’t have to agree with people’s racism but they are entitled to have free thought and autonomy over their bodies. I don’t agree with racism in any sense but ai do think over your own body you should be allowed autonomy. These people also pay taxes, their body their choice.
tabling as they don’t abuse or be rude or harm any medical staff, the freedom to request politely a different doctor, should be allowed. If no drs are available then obviously then they have to decide don’t they, no treatment or a long waiting list or start to accept people with different skin colours are also excellent medical staff.

I just don't think it's appropriate to let an injured or ill person die because they (possibly while not thinking clearly) refused treatment. Even if they are a horrible racist.

If there are no HCPs of the ethnicity they demand, then I suppose they would be treated the same way as any patient who is brought in seriously injured or ill, and refusing any treatment whatsoever.

I do think that if it's an appointment and non-urgent, then the person should be bumped down the list and given an appointment with the HCP of the race they want (with a longer waiting time, inevitably).

If you refuse treatment, don’t you go to the back of the queue and then there’s no guarantee you get your preferred clinician the next time either?

Then if racists don’t get seen in time, it’s entirely their choice.

Patients are entitled to request same sex clinicians, and the NHS is required to take their preferences into account. That doesn't mean that the NHS is always required to provide a same sex clinician if there isn't one available.

I have no idea what you mean about race "leapfrogging" women's comfort.

OK maybe religion isn't where people's biases lie but on ethnicity. I just uniform rules could be used to reduce any risk of religous bias though maybe the problem is one mainly of race.

This. But the resident racists on Mumsnet seem aghast at the idea their choices may have consequences and that not everybody will bend over backwards, risking other patient’s care to accommodate their racism.

I am really hoping to see people ask for white doctors in my GP practice as every single doctor is Asian, black or Chinese. They will be waiting a long time. It's a long time anyway here in SE London!

There is one doctor with a good Biblical Christian name. Think something like Thomas Matthews. ( not his real name).
He's an Indian Christian. That would be entertaining if people ask for him thinking he is white.

If patients have good non racist reasons such as the clinical success/expertise that you mention, those reasons can simply be given. That is not a problem and it’s not what we are talking about here.

Specifically saying that you refuse treatment because of the healthcare worker’s skin colour or ethnicity should not be given in to. In my 26 years as an NHS nurse we never tolerated that bullshit, and if dh (who is a Consultant) comes across it he reminds the patient that they know where the door is and are free to use it if they don’t want treatment.

Technically, there are consequences. Given the waiting times , it’s fairly likely that requesting a doctor of a different/acceptable colour means waiting in pain /scared even longer. If they want and are capable to make that choice , they should be able to. Racist language, comments and abuse (if done while having capacity)should have them barred from the hospital , gp surgery etc. where they made them.

But they are not being left to die. They are choosing to refuse treatment.

Do people who refuse treatment have zero accountability in your eyes?

Or maybe we are saying the same. If a racist patient’s preferred HCP is available they should have their preference respected. If not and they refuse treatment well…that’s on them.

There are racists everywhere. It’s called being alive. Nothing to do with Mumsnet residents.. of which there are none. Myopic, much?

That's really awful. Some people are truly vile.

If I needed care from A&E, I wouldn't care at all about the ethnicity or gender of the person treating me, I'd just be bloody glad that they were treating me!

There are certainly racists everywhere. Including lots on MN.

Not sure what it has to do with being alive...

I’m sure I would. The expectations for UK trained doctors is high as it’s so competitive. But locally there are a lot of imported HCPs - it certainly feels like they outnumber the UK-trained ones. I suspect they are cheaper. And these members of staff frequently do not have the level of English required for the elderly, the hard of hearing, the confused and fellow non-natives like myself. Some are excellent, but many are difficult for me to communicate with. And I have fairly good English.

Anecdotally I see lots of Asian families in my social circle strongly encouraging their children into professions like medicine, dentistry, opticians. These are bright kids with excellent academics and brilliant English language skills. But while I see them go into training, I don’t tend to see them practicing in the UK afterwards. They go abroad, switch career paths, move into research etc. Why is the NHS investing all this money into training people for other countries and companies?

Since I came to this city at least 50% of the medical professionals who have treated me were "non white". I had the same Asian GP for many years until he retired. The practice i go to is very diverse and I don't specify any particular doctor.

There was a thread recently where NHS staff were complaining about abuse from patients. Now abuse is never justified but there were plenty of examples given where patients unhappy with treatment or understandably stressed assertively but respectfully challenged staff,; the question being are NHS using abuse guidelines to stifle legitimate challenge?
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Patients expecting staff of a certain ethnicity is unacceptable but there are dangers of automatically labelling elderly white patients as rd its if their behaviour, humour or general attitude is may be a little challenging. We also have to be careful of accusations of racism being based on solid evidence.

To be honest I've only seen it within non-white communities eg Muslim/Hindu & Muslims refusing to be treated by Jews.

There's likely to be a few especially older generation who would wait longer to see the white GP they've known for years.

Alot of people are just abusive & especially when drunk in a&e waiting hours in cramped conditions (not that excuses it but does escalate it) will just pick on any characteristics to be abusive eg race, skin colour, appearance, male/female, homophobic

A rape victim will most certainly take priority with accessing a same sex clinician. Even outside of those extreme circumstances, there are issues around safeguarding. You can't force a woman to be internally examined by a male clinician. There will always be a female clinician available, in such cases shoukd a woman request. You seem to have thrown in a few curve balls from your OP, which I agreed with.

Why have people gone straight to racism with the "cared of black people" reason/comment?

Without knowing if that person has a genuine reasondue to their history?

What's the genuine reason to be scared of black ppl?

This made no sense.

I wouldn’t refuse those people treatment entirely but I’d definitely send them to the back of the queue.

Because it is racism. I cannot think of a non-racist reason to be scared a billion people globally due to their perceived melanin level.

Absolutely, and a rape victim should take priority in that scenario, as should any other woman who has a specific need to see a female clinician.

Personally, I have a preference to see female clinicians for specific procedures but not an actual need. So if the only female clinicians available are already busy seeing patients with higher level needs than me, I think it's perfectly reasonable that I should be told that I can only see a male clinician on that day.

Rape, sexual assault, assault. Domestic violence, bullying etc.
As I posted, we don't know about the personal history of someone that said that they were "scared of black people".