AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

Interesting. What about people who drink, smoke, or over-eat, and so deliberately cause their own health conditions? People who drive drunk and have car accidents? Or people who are incarcerated for violent crimes?

Do you think only white people are British? Really?

I’m not arguing ‘for’ anything. If a patient refuses treatment on the day from any practitioner for any reason, they have to wait until the next appointment. If a patient is abusive, I believe it’s entirely reasonable to refuse treatment until they are able to not be abusive. In emergency situations this would probably involve anaesthesia, but that’s harder for a radiographer.

So what we have on this thread, apart from the concerns about accents, are:

White people should be able to pick white doctors because they respect them more and they feel uncomfortable around non-whites.
If a non-white person ever abused you in the outside world, it's ok for you to ask for a white doctor.
It's ok to only want white doctors because non-whites are always foreign.
It's ok to only want British qualified doctors
It's ok to ask for white doctors because some non-whites are depriving their home countries.
It's ok to ask for white doctors because many non-whites hate gays, women and autistic people, so let's treat them all the same.

Have I misrepresented anyone's concerns?

This.

English is the first language of Irish and Scots too, but I still cannot understand a solitary word they say to me.

It's not skin colour; it's the accent being so heavy it changes the shape their mouth forms when they're speaking.

I'm partially deaf in one ear, and I lipread without knowing I'm doing it. It was picked up on by a consultant when I was a child. My brain fills in the missing words, so to me, I am hearing you speak. It's not a skill I have deliberately learned, and it's not something I can do with accents I am not familiar with and because I didn't actively learn how to do it, I can't teach myself how to lipread unfamiliar accents.

I'm fine with accents I know and would regularly translate drunken Geordie for colleagues when I worked in bars in Manchester. Ditto Chinese accents, but if it is not an accent I grew up around, I can't hear what you're saying; my brain cannot fill in the words my ears miss.

I hate having to ask to speak to someone else, and it makes me feel like shit when people roll their eyes at me and walk off sighing and muttering, but what else can I do? I literally cannot hear what they're saying if they have a heavy accent.

As you say selecting a practitioner by skin colour due to language is incredibly stupid for obvious reasons.

But that said I think it’s fine to reject a medical practitioner because they have poor English. They really shouldn’t be employed in the first place.

I don't believe anyone should be denied care completely, regardless of their moral failings (otherwise we'd be leaving a lot of prison inmates to suffer).

I do think you should go to the bottom of the queue if you're picky about who treats you though.

The article- which no one has read- is not talking about accents. That's deflection.

It isn't what I'm arguing for, though. I've explicitly said that holding abhorrent views should not be a reason for declining treatment. However, if those abhorrent views cause a patient to refuse treatment because of the ethnicity of the HCP, then I don't think the NHS should be required to offer an alternative.

Where would I draw the line? Quite simple, I would draw it where a patient refuses to accept treatment from someone of a particular race.

With regard to sex, I do believe that people should be allowed to express a preference where intimate procedures are involved, but only for such procedures and even then it cannot be an entitlement.

They really do tell on themselves don’t they….(and why do people think Africa is a country?!)

I agree. The standard of written and spoken English is sub standard in many cases and is partially due to the weak equivalence standards of international exminations. Clinical care does rely on good communication. I am aware in some trusts foreign staff with poor English can get airlines as there is a lack of trust in communication and also simply the fact you can't ask someone to repeat something 3 times without appearing racist, you tend to just ask someone else. If course if you bring up communication challenges you are automatically branded racist.

I am surprised that some people are advocating that, if a person comes into A&E in critical condition, having been in a car accident, and says "get away from me you dirty x!" to a woman, or Black or Asian HCP, that the other HCPs should then leave them to die without doing anything.

Harsh.

And every other combination and permutation other than the one being discussed!

Are you forgetting what you said yourself about accents? You are just looking for racism when there are other reasons why situations arise.

When I was at university there was a local sexual health clinic that clearly stated they could not facilitate requests for appointments with people of a specific sex. They had too many male gynaecologists and too few female ones to make it work. So those with an issue would have to have gone elsewhere.

Let's agree then that if you can't understand a doctor, you can ask for another one. Not racist!
People are going on about it so we can agree

I don’t think they should be left to die but also they should not have medical staff bend over backwards to try and accommodate their racism. Especially if that impacts the quality of care of other patients or adversely impacts staff.

(I would also argue they are not being left to did in your scenario. They are choosing it. And there needs to be more expectation that people have personal accountability and are responsible for consequences of their own choices.)

Requesting a same sex doctor is most certainly an entitlement in extreme cases. You've lost your own argument there OP.

But fair.

I don't understand the relevance of your question. This isn't about value judgements and deciding that certain people don't deserve treatment because they hold abhorrent views or engage in behaviours that are bad for their health. I have stated very clearly that I believe in the principle of universal healthcare regardless of whether or not the patient is "deserving".

This is about people who have chosen to refuse care on the basis of the ethnicity of the HCP. Or similar spurious reason such as their sexuality. I am not saying that they should be refused treatment because they are racist or homophobic etc. I'm saying that the NHS should not have to pander to their racism/homophobia etc by offering up an HCP who is white or straight or whatever.

I'm not sure what the equivalent situation would be for someone who smokes or overeats or whatever? But yes, if a smoker refuses treatment from a doctor that doesn't smoke, or an overweight person refuses treatment from someone with a healthy BMI, then I would regard that as their choice and expect them to face the consequences of that choice - I would not expect the NHS to produce a smoking and/or overweight doctor to satisfy their demands?

I'm not sure it's appropriate to give someone the death penalty for using a racial slur and demanding a different doctor.

Perhaps in extreme cases. But I think it should only be an entitlement where there is a genuine clinical need.

It says more about your thought process that only a white person can be racist.

For reference Ponoka said they are of mixed heritage so your argument falls at the first hurdle.

Fair enough. So you also think that a woman should be denied treatment if she refuses a male doctor, then?

Edit: Never mind, I see you answered someone else's question on this.

What's a 'clinical need' in your opinion?