AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

Obviously it's completely unacceptable to refuse care purely because of an HCPs skin colour, but there's another aspect here in that some have such poor spoken English that they simply can't be understood and I'm wondering if this has factored in to some people's objections?

It's not just those from other nations who sometimes need interpreters; I've personally seen other staff "assist" patients because they couldn't understand a word that was being said to them

Well that’s horrible, hopefully it was dealt with properly.

Would it stop you accepting treatment from other black doctors?

I've seen photos from when my mum gave birth to my sister in the early 70s, London. Every midwife was black! I had my son in the 90s in London, and they all happened to be white.

Pretty much every doctor who has seen me for my fibroids going back to the mid 2000s has been Middle Eastern. And that's London and now the north east of England.

Not that I ever thought about any of this. But I also saw the article on rising racism from patients in the NHS.

A PP above made an interesting point about the perpetrators not necessarily being white. Maybe they are white-skinned, but when I was still in London I saw plenty of racism by Eastern European people towards black people.

Havemt read the story.
Have u considered some cant understand another language and dont want to try when in a medical setting.
I couldnt understand a indian man i spoke to today but given he didnt listen it made for a hell of a phone call and still unanswered questions.
Racist or not pisses me off.

So if someone actively refuses treatment from your DH because they don't like the colour of his skin, you think the NHS should provide a white consultant to see the patient instead?

I'm not talking about refusing treatment to patients who express racist views. I'm talking about those who choose to decline treatment because of the race of the HCP. Do you really think that the NHS should just allow them to demand a consultant with the ethnic background of their choice?

Then if they couldn't understand the Russian doctor, they can ask for a doctor who speaks clear English. You're making waves where there aren't any with regards to language barriers. I had a call from a GP about test results and I could hardly understand him. Am I to just suck it up at the risk to my health, rather than request another GP?

You can request another GP.
But you know that.
You are just stirring.

We should probably also weed out the misogynists then (a lot of men will have to die, oh dear, how sad), the homophobes, and also stop treating anyone who's in prison for a violent or sexual crime. (Oh, and maybe smokers, drinkers, and over-eaters who have conditions related to their vices, because they brought their issues on themselves deliberately?)

It might sound tempting, but I feel like it's probably not the ethical way to go...

If you had bothered to read the story, then you would know that this isn't just about language or communication difficulties, it is about overt racism.

You're not discussing in good faith. If you were, you're response would have been different. I'm certainly not the one stirring.

I don't think anyone has read the story!
Going on about accents to deflect.

Yep 😃

You've talked about it yourself!

I work in the NHS. Outwith absolute emergencies, any patient refusing treatment from a member of staff based on their race, religion, sexuality etc would be asked to leave, no exception.

If they apologised and sounded genuine, I would rebook them on a different day, if not I would discharge them.

Requests for a male/female doctor or nurse for intimate examinations/care are listened to and accommodated if possible, but that isn’t always the case - I often have an all female team in theatre for example, so anyone requesting only men provide their care couldn’t be accommodated.

In a true emergency setting I would provide care to the most bigoted racist around…but would also not hesitate to stop providing care once stable, nor with reporting them to the police if appropriate.

Currently sitting in an outpatients clinic in London. There are probably 30+ staff here, that I've seen. Only 1 appears to be white British, 2 are Greek. The rest are a mix of afro-carribean or Asian. Don't think you would have any choice here!

I agree with you. I don’t think the NHS should have to bend over backwards to accommodate people’s racism (we really are going back in time).

If they only want a white person / person of a certain ethnicity then fine, if there is an option available cater to their request. But they should not have to go to extra effort, call people in just to accommodate racists. If the only people available to do the service are not of the desired ethnicity then they get that or nothing at all.

If someone refuses to be treated by a gay HCP because of homophobia, then I think the same thing should apply.

Same if a man refuses treatment from a woman because of misogyny. The only caveat to that is that I do think that both men and women should be able to express a preference for same sex doctors when dealing with intimate male/female issues. But even then, I think it should be a preference rather than an entitlement.

That’s precisely what you are arguing for - denying treatment to someone who holds abhorrent views.
As you pointed out, universal healthcare is open to everyone, even those who don’t deserve it. Where do you draw the line? I wouldn’t want a male HCP performing certain procedures on me, and in fact it’s common practice now to be asked if you want a same sex HCP.

Racism is bad. But public health shouldn't be refusing treatment to racist (or sexist, or homophobic, etc) patients. The natural consequence of refusing an HCP should be that the patient has to wait until someone of their preferred ethnicity is available (if indeed they are available) to be treated.

Turfing them out to die on the street and refusing any further treatment seems disproportionate.

How would the patient know though?

At no point did I suggest that only white people would consider the UK their native land so not sure how you got there.

It’s all subjective but it seems to me vanishingly unlikely that a person of colour would refer to another person of colour as ‘dirty foreigner’, or that they would say ‘black people frighten me’ or that they would ‘always complain about the colour of skin or practitioners. That’s not to say there aren’t prejudiced views between minority ethnic groups, there are of course, but I do not believe they would be expressed in those ways. These are common tropes of white people’s racism.

Which idea? Not bending over backwards to accommodate racists or refusing service due to the race of the service provider.

but no one is refused treatment, everyone should be offered the same.
Everyone should be allowed to express a preference too.

If someone refuses what is offered, then they shouldn't be offered alternatives. It's not even about a second opinion, it's plain refusal because they don't like somebody's face or colour or religion. They are also free to go private if they NHS is not of their liking.

I was the duty solicitor for a legal advice drop in service. A Muslim gentleman asked for a male advisor and I said no. He said he wouldn't talk to me so I said OK. Next person in the queue please.

Do you therefore think that a woman who has been raped should accept being examined by a male if a female wasn’t available? What a strange take!