AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

You think all trained British medical staff are white?

Think you might be part of the problem ... 🙄

And you’re gaslighting about it.

I am saying that it is racist to make blanket assumptions about someone based purely on their ethnicity or nationality without any evidence of what that individual may or may not believe. That is the very essence of racism, and it is not OK.

If someone expresses views or attitudes that are problematic or offensive, then by all means, make a complaint and/or ask for a different member of staff. But don't assume that they will hold objectionable views simply because of their ethnicity or nationality.

If there are communication difficulties and patients are genuinely struggling to understand, then of course it's ok to ask for help in that situation. But again, that's different from leaping to an assumption that someone won't understand anyone who happens to have a foreign accent.

The OP is talking about people refusing treatment from non-white staff. The poster I quoted has said that it would mean British doctors could get the jobs. Which implies that that poster thinks all British people are white.

Reading it back, I think it's interesting that of the five quoted only one (in bold) is explicit that it came from a white person and I wonder why that was the only one singled out in giving the ethnicity of the perpetrator.

Following the question of the original pp which made me rethink my initial assumption I actually wonder if that actually tends to indicate that the other four were not. Any of the other for could have come from any ethnicity (I certainly wouldn't say, as you suggest, that only a white person would consider the UK their native land and another race as a foreign).

For reference:

"Some patients always complain about the colour of skin of people attending them," said one worker.

- One radiographer spoke of "patients describing healthcare staff as dirty foreigners".

- Another said: "I have witnessed a colleague being called a monkey by a patient."

- A white man allegedly refused to let a sonographer scan his pregnant wife, telling the staff: "I don't want anyone from any ethnic background touching my woman."

- And another patient refused to let a black radiographer perform their chest X-ray, as "black people frighten me".

Yep

Gaslighting? You think it's reasonable to only want to be treated by white people because non-whites don't respect you and you feel uncomfortable with them.
You are a racist and I hope you don't get any treatment.

While I think the racist examples are horrible I don't think people should be denied treatment based on their outdated views. Even violent patients are not completely denied treatment so it would be frankly ridiculous to deny them based just on words.

I suppose we should also refuse treatment to misogynistic patients too, who make sexist comments about their female HCPs, or refuse them? Perhaps we should refuse treatment to patients who make homophobic slurs? Or those who wear paraphernalia supporting Tommy Robinson, or Andrew Tate?

Really, it seems a little silly to say a doctor should have to save the life of a serial child rapist, but it's okay to let a mouthy racist, who's never actually assaulted anyone, die.

How do HCPs deal with violent patients now? I assume they get them a lot - drunks, people who are high, generally aggressive types etc, and I would've imagined they would be restrained for everyone's safety, and then treated?

Yes, I have.

I reported it.

He got incredibly frustrated that I couldn't understand a particular word he was trying to say. To be fair it was in the early hours and a stressful situation. And while it may have been the language barrier, he didn't seem to understand what to do.

Unfortunately for him, despite me not being able to understand the particular word in English he was trying to say, I knew exactly what the 'oyinbo sshawo' he spat out at me meant (white whore), thanks to a past neighbour.

If the person has suffered abuse at the hands of a black person, they can refuse treatment from a black doctor That's surely a natural assumption given that its OK to refuse treatment from a white doctor if history shows black patients are treated less favourably. The key to all if this is nuance, so long as it is applied consistently. Refusing treatment based on skin colour, just for the sake of it is racist - in both directions.

I think you're begging my question somewhat. If we agree that there are certain traumas or circumstances based on race that mean it is acceptable for someone to say, "sorry but I really can't be treated by a person of [X] origin," then we agree that we certainly shouldn't be punishing people for saying it by deliberately and, frankly, maliciously withholding NHS medical treatment, any more than we would of someone said the same about requesting a particular sex.

If there is noone available who meets the criteria requested, thats one thing - the patient in either case has to choose to be treated by them or not (some mitigations perhaps being offered such as a chaperone). But if we say that in one case (sex) we're going to try to accommodate the request of we can but in the other (race) we're going to refuse you further treatment even if we have someone who would fit the patient's request, that is not fair or equal treatment of the patient based on need, is it?

I don't think anyone on this thread is suggesting that racist abuse is in any way something that should be tolerated (other than perhaps unfortunately to some degree by someone disturbed in their mind, in which case that colleague should in any event be shielded from it as much as possible, I would have thought).

Nobody is suggesting that they should be denied treatment on the basis of words, though.

The suggestion is that there should be consequences to them refusing treatment because of the skin colour of the HCP. So they can have treatment or they can refuse treatment, they just can't demand that they are treated by a white HCP. Or indeed by an HCP of any other specific ethnicity.

Also, I don't think it's reasonable to describe racism as "outdated views". It has always been wrong and everyone alive now will have lived through decades of knowing that racism is unacceptable.

So he was racist. Simple.

I do medical school admissions. The candidates are all incredible. Nearly all UK-born and all excellent English in the interviews. Around 80% have brown or black skin. You would be missing out on a lot of talent of doctors by ignoring the brown queue ;-)

My grandfather refused to have carers over who couldn't communicate in English. He got accused of being racist besides his favourite carer being a black woman🙄

Wow really? So I can refuse treatment from a white doctor because a white skinhead told me to go home?
Ok.

I don’t see any suggestion of punishing people for refusing treatment. Just the denial of an automatic right to treatment after refusing for racist reasons. In much the same way as a person who refuses a treatment date more than twice goes back on the list. It’s not only a moral thing, it’s about protecting the workforce and managing the enormous backlog.

The cardiologist who carried out DH's life saving open heart surgery last year is Asian, as are all but one of the cardiologists at that hospital.

If people are stupid enough to decline treatment for racist reasons then that is on them.

Those of you who pick white doctors because they speak English better might end up with a Russian doctor for whom English is a third language, as opposed to an Indian, Pakistani or Sri Lankan for whom English is a first language.
Racism is so funny.

I’m not denying there are racist people, and that should not be tolerated. But for me, it’s not skin colour, it’s language barrier. If I’m waiting 6/9 months to see a consultant. I want to be able to understand what they’re saying. The skin colour obv has no bearings, a white consultant with broken English and I’d say the same. I want a different doctor. And I actually recall being in the theatre, being put under, 3 members of staff there. 2 of which talking to each other in their language, It was awful losing consciousness and not knowing what was being said, it might well have been about their lunch/weekend plans and nothing to do with my operation, but it was not a nice feeling

I’m married to a non-white NHS consultant.

I don’t think anybody should be refused treatment. It’s morally reprehensible and absolutely ripe for abuse by those who might wish to call every challenging interaction “racism”.

No, because common sense applies.

refusing treatment from a black doctor because a black person once upset you is ‘’refusing for the sake of it’. It’s idiotic. The girl who bullied me at school had red hair and freckles, but surprisingly I’ve recovered such that I can interact with other red heads because - hold tight - they’re not all one homogenous person!

I don't see the problem here!