AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

In the article it says:

The findings come after the latest NHS Staff Survey showed the percentage of staff who have experienced some discrimination over the past 12 months is at a five-year high.

A quick Google seemed to suggest that the percentage of NHS staff from Black, Asian and minority ethnic (BME) backgrounds is 28.6% while in 2020 it was between 21% and 22%.

Given that there will be a certain proportion of society who hold the sort of views that lead them to discriminate against people from these backgrounds, then the fact that the percentage of staff experiencing this has risen is, statistically, not surprising. This does not necessarily mean that patients are getting more racist, but that there are more staff who might be targets for this behaviour.

Please be clear, I am not in any way, shape or form defending disgusting racist attitudes. Nor am I suggesting that anyone should have to deal with, accept or expect such behaviour.

However, I am just pointing out you have to be careful how you interpret statistics before concluding, as OP does, that this is evidence of a shift in society towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

Did you read some of the things patients have said? Calling radiographers ‘monkeys’ and ‘dirty’. This isn’t about legitimate complaints, it’s pure racism towards medical professionals.

Yeah, that's whats called natural consequences. You refuse treatment, you refuse treatment. Simple

Not sure you can draw your conclusions either. To be truly certain on the rise or otherwise, we’d have to know the number of patients and the number of interactions, and whether the increase in minority ethnicity professionals is due to an increase in their number or a decrease in the number of white professionals. ‘BME’ will also include white non-British staff, so you’d want to know the breakdown of that too.

Absolutely this. It's only the females in our team who ever are in receipt of discrimination, and white menbers the most. I have lost count of the number of times I have given advice and then been asked 'I would like to speak to the proper Dr please, the male one', been subjected to intimidating behaviour to the point we need to take a male staff with us on visits, made it clear that we are the qualified staff member and the male was support staff, only to see all the questions directed to him. And people requesting a staff member in line with their culture (it's not about language, we book interpreters), as they feel more comfortable with that. The last one I don't think is completely wrong, but if a white person did the same there would be uproar.

No it doesn’t, it’s called safeguarding vulnerable
menbers of society some of whom may be non verbal or unable to communicate effectively .When there is deep prejudice built into law and historic deep rooted spirituality alongside widespread corruption( including medical qualifications) it’s a massive concern for those of us as carers of the vulnerable. I really couldn’t care less what accusations you throw at it, lucky you not in the position of having to advocate and protect a vulnerable loved one.

@Teob1t "How would you like your elderly parent or vulnerable ND or mentally ill child to be treated by somebody with limited English "

article is not talking about language its talking about skin colour

Many white, British people have accents that are hard to understand if you aren't used to them. Yes it can take some patience and willingness on both sides.

So I think it is mainly related to skin colour.

Yes but if accusations of racism are going to be thrown towards parents and carers asking for somebody they can understand better or who understands them better then language is very much part of the discussion.

My friend's daughter is an F2 doctor working in A&E.

She experiences racism and misogyny every day. I was shocked to hear that people (mostly men, tbf) actually tell her to her face that they're not prepared to be treated by her because she's Asian or a woman and on a daily basis. And the ones that are prepared to be treated by her quite often make sexualised comments to her.

She finds it incredibly intimidating and upsetting.

But there has been a shift in our society - I'm not concluding that on the basis of this article alone but on the basis of the shift in political rhetoric and support for far right parties, the rise in the number of hate crimes, what I've observed in my own local community and indeed the experiences of my own family members.

I didn't say that the rise in racist incidents towards NHS staff is necessarily evidence of that shift, I said that it isn't surprising in light of that shift.

If you are calling someone a monkey or dirty that isn't anything to do with language skills.

And yes I do have to advocate for a disabled child.

Obviously not talking about behaviour like that.

It can be difficult to follow phone conversations with doctors for all sorts of reasons - accent might be one but also speed, volume, stressful experience etc. Why wouldn’t you just say ‘I’m sorry, I’m hard of hearing/having difficulty understanding what you’re saying and I want to make sure I understand all the details. Could you please repeat slowly, or could you put the details in writing.’ A good doctor wants to make sure the patient understands.

Well that’s what the article is talking about.

People from ethnic minority backgrounds face deep prejudice from people who make stupid assumptions about them based on their ethnicity alone. Their rights also need to be safeguarded.

Frankly, you have no idea as to whether or not I might be in a position to need to advocate for someone vulnerable because it's irrelevant. Your position as a carer does not give you the right to discriminate against someone on the grounds of their race or nationality.

If you encounter someone who has attitudes that put a vulnerable person at risk, then by all means, you should advocate on their behalf. But blind assumptions on the basis of race or nationality are not ok. Whether you are capable of seeing that or not.

I guess some people on this thread would have refused treatment from my parents, both doctors who came here in the late 60s from India with foreign qualifications, because of their alleged prejudice against X or Y. More fool they.

I might point out that getting a medical seat in India is far harder and more demanding than getting one in the UK. Incredibly hard.

Behaviour like that is what this thread is about.

Very specific psychosis there. I’d imagine the services dealing with psychotic patients could manage this effectively, and it has nothing to do with outpatient radiography.

I broadly agree OP. But what if it involves psychiatric treatment for a racist person? It could have horrific consequences.

BUPA employ Black, Asian and ‘other’ medics, both British and non-British. Going private will not indulge anyone’s racism. Nor should it.

Personally, if I see a Malaysian nurse approaching me, I breathe a sigh of relief as I have always, without fail, been treated with gentleness, care and compassion. If medics treat me holistically as an individual human being, skin colour is not even part of the picture. Racism is abhorrent. However, I do want to be able to communicate with ease and understanding … and that also is not always down to shade of skin.

Yes, as stated above, you would need to be able to ensure that the patient had the capacity to understand the consequences of their decisions.

And if the patient was deemed to be a risk to others, then obviously treatment would need to be provided.

From the article:

"Mr Awah also claimed he had experienced patients telling him they cannot understand him, even though English is the only language he speaks."

So the racists are pretending not to understand him - although racists love to justify their racism with "them" being too lazy to learn "our" language. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The "logical" end result would be segregation - POC exclusively treating POC and whites treating whites (though racists like to draw the line at "British", ie they would refuse a Polish doctor), making us the creators of our own dystopian future.

One of those comments should lead to the appointment/procedure getting cancelled and the patient banned IMO.

It does “Mr Awah also claimed he had experienced patients telling him they cannot understand him, even though English is the only language he speaks.”

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack I find it quite shocking that in this day and age, people still judge based on someone's origins! If they are medically qualified to do the job then I couldn't care less where they were from and nor should anyone.

Race is a protected characteristic, so if a patient is racist towards a medical professional, then this should be dealt with. Not only should they go to the back of the waiting list for refusing treatment, but they should also have to face racism charges and potentially a fine. It's just not acceptable.