AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

The struggle uk student doctors and nurses are having as regards finding work is well documented.

Obviously if someone is downright racist then, yes, out of the door.

But….. the Hippocratic oath. I don’t think doctors can refuse to treat someone, however odious they may be.

Secondly, is not understanding someone racist? Obviously with good hearing and full faculties we can politely strain to get the gist of what a hp is saying. But we will all decline, and if someone doesn’t speak clearly it could be a wasted appointment. My cousin had a phone appointment with the pancreatic cancer nurse. She couldn’t make out what he was saying; she was upset as she said she could hardly phone back and ask to speak to somebody else for fear of annoying the department her (declining) life was in the hands of.

A sonographer in the Midlands, of Asian descent, said several patients have said to her: "This country isn't the same, with all those people coming over here, taking our jobs.

This quote from the article in the OP, ime, the people who say this are usually in no way qualified to do the job they believe is being taken from them and are frequently of non-British heritage themselves. It's something my dad says regularly, to which he is usually told, "dude, your mother was an immigrant; you have no more right to be here than the British-born Asian Dr. Also, you're a window fitter; I don't think your respiratory consultant is interested in your job."

YANBU OP, however, it's worth noting that sometimes it is not the colour of people's skin that is the issue. I'm partially deaf and struggle to understand thick accents, including Scottish and Irish, fwiw, and while I've never been accused of racism, I have had some faces when I've asked if there is anyone available with less of an accent to help me.

I honestly don't care if the person helping me is white, brown, black, or purple and yellow polka dotted, as long as I can understand what they're saying to me, but that's not always the way it's taken when I need to ask to speak to someone else.

Working at a GP training practice we have lots of registrars from different nationalities. It is amazing the amount of the patients who demand to see a "white doctor".

We like it when they demand to see someone English, especially that nice Dr X. We love telling them that Dr X is actually from Zimbabwe!

Its always about the colour of their skin, not their nationality or the fact that they are registrars.

Mind you, we also get patients telling us that they wont see a GP who is younger than them!

oh no. what a shame. won't anyone think of the racists.

FAFO

My elderly dad refused physio therapy because he thought the other patients would be brown/black and the staff would be as well; this was at an in-patient post surgical treatment center in the U.S. That was 2 years ago and now he’s hunched over and can barely walk. It didn’t have to be that way but 🤷‍♀️ he’s a racist dick.

The article talks about patients calling foreigners monkeys and insinuating they are rapists. Not about language.

If they refuse treatment they don't get treatment. If they ask for another doctor or second opinion they get another doctor (if and when available) not necessarily a white doctor, if they ask for another, another doctor there probably isn't one available. Same with nurses, and if they ask for a white doctor or nurse they should be prosecuted for discrimination.

White staff should refuse to take over and let the racists suffer.

Nope as the UK does not have a pervasive lack of public awareness and deep-rooted spiritual explanations for autism. We also don’t have a public sentiment regarding the LGBT community that is overwhelmingly negative, reinforced by both state laws and unified opposition across religious populations.

You seem to be suggesting that you can only be British if you are white. Is that what you’re suggesting? That all NHS staff who are not white are also not British?

Do you understand that you are racist?

I am happy to have a person of any race or either gender treat me but think they need to be able to communicate properly in the language of the country they are working in
I recently was referred to a consultant who could only manage 2 word sentences and gestures eg ‘you pain?’ And pointing at various body parts - conclusion was ‘go xray’and took no notice of all my other symptoms which led to an incorrect diagnosis and I had to go for a second opinion

One of the people quoted in the article was saying that he’s had people saying they can’t understand him, despite English being the only language he speaks. So the article is linking that with racism - I’m not convinced it is, but it is in the article.

The article doesn't reference language - it specifically relates to overt racism.

Calling someone dirty or a monkey has nothing to do with their language skills.

As someone who has spent a great deal of time being seen by various NHS staff (for both physical and mental health), I am just grateful to be seen by someone who is knowledgeable, conscientious, and respectful.

I have only used NHS.

My worst ever, experience was with a white British psychiatrist (he’s possibly one of the worst human beings I have ever had the misfortune of encountering).

The most competent, and pleasant person I have dealt with, has been my Dutch Neurologist, her knowledge and empathy top notch.

I have a lot of gyne issues and I am only comfortable with female doctors/nurses, if I have to have any type of intimate exam. All HCP have been extremely understanding about this.

I’m in fairly rural area in the UK, and I know we have trouble attracting doctors, and consultants, who want to stay here for the long haul. We certainly have (white, and non white) British GPs, and consultants working where I live, but as I previously said, due to this location being a bit remote and rural, is just not a terribly attractive permanent location to young, and probably ambitious people with a medical degree - they tend to prefer the cities. Even my childhood friend I grew up with, he left here to work as a consultant in Edinburgh.

From a selfish point of view, I slightly prefer it when I have a HCP from an another country. It makes small talk so much more bearable for me😀. I’m ND, and while I can do an excellent job of ‘performing’ mundane small talk, it drains my energy. Also, as a lot of ‘small talk’ in medical settings, helps distract from otherwise painful/uncomfortable procedures, and I am genuinely intrigued to hear about different countries.

Pay them more?

If patients had more confidence that they would receive the same level of treatment, including clarity of communication about that treatment, this might be less of an issue.

I think it's awful for people to outright call doctors "monkeys" etc as I saw on the news. This is dehumanisation which isn't justified regardless of the treatment quality. And just because someone has had a bad experience with one non-white doctor doesn't mean some other unrelated doctor deserves to catch flack for it.

It's also true that there have been several high-profile issues involving fake overseas credentials. It's been true for a while that overseas and non-white medical professionals are more likely to have complaints against them. And the response is always a reflexive "we will investigate why these poor people are being so unfairly discriminated against" instead of "we will see what's going on, and are open to the possibility that overseas degrees / non-English native speakers are actually genuinely providing a worse treatment experience". What does this do for public trust? It provides cover for people to be racist.

So in short: the NHS needs to uphold much higher and more rigorous standards, and then it can also expect to hold the public to equivalent standards of respect for their staff. I don't think there should be an option to only request white doctors. All doctors should be held to the same high standard, including of English language proficiency.

I agree.

If an ambulance turns up and the patient refuses treatment because it has an all-black crew, no way should another ambulance be sent; it should be recorded that they refused treatment.

The same should apply across the board, in A&E, outpatient appointments, and care/treatment for in-patients.

Yes, the consequence is you will need to go private!

Is it skin colour that is the issue or is it not understanding accents?
Some people can really not understand people with accents and become outraged almost instantly.

I very much doubt they would. If they are being allowed to reject medical care on the basis of skin colour, they are indulging their racism in a system that facilitates it. If the system refuses to allow it, and their choice was stop being racist or die in agony, do you really suppose many are going to choose option B?
I think the NHS policy should be to permit patients to specify who carries out their care only on the basis of reasonable requirements. For example, a same sex carer.
Ethics aside, it's simply not practicable for people to choose the skin colour of their practitioners, it would impose a huge administrative burden and would create a hostile environment for non white staff, which would put the NHS at risk of being sued as employers.

And if you call people 'dirty foreigners', 'monkeys', say you are frightened of all black people and refuse to allow your partner to be touched by someone from an ethnic minority?

The article linked by OP says nothing about accents.

I'm not just talking about autism or sexuality though. I'm talking about whether people from the same country should all be assumed to hold the same views.

If you really think that there are entire populations which are incapable of independent thought, then that says more about your own prejudices than the prejudices of any particular individual from one of the countries in question.

I wouldn’t be here but for the NHS treatment I have received over the years from doctors and nurses from Africa and India and other countries.
Two great GPs from Sri Lanka treated me most of my life and my children.
When I had cancer the Specialist was European. Main nurse treating me with chemo for six months, Lynette, was from Zimbabwe. A doctor who also treated me was African.
More recently after a heart attack the medics who saved me and treated me were mostly Indian or British Indian. Subsequently vital treatments I had a wide range of nationalities treating me and very grateful I am for it all.
Thank God they came to our country to serve our needs and keep our NHS going.

Where had she said that?

Uk trained staff will be all colours and religions which is good, we need diversity but diversity that is UK trained with a UK medical degree level of English.

Patients should absolutely be able to complain re levels of English, comprehension and communication. It is hugely important.