AIBU to think refusing treatment from non-white medical professionals should have consequences?

[MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack]

There has apparently been a significant rise in racism towards NHS staff, with a growing number of people refusing to allow non-white NHS staff to treat them. This is sad but not surprising given the shift in society as a whole towards people expressing their racism much more openly.

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-experiencing-unconscionable-levels-of-racist-abuse-survey-finds-13569575

I have always admired the commitment of NHS staff who treat all patients with care and compassion, even when those patients are rude and abusive. But if people are actually refusing to let certain staff provide treatment, surely there should be consequences for this?

AIBU to think that everyone has the right to refuse treatment if they so wish, but if a patient refuses treatment from a medical professional simply because they don't like the colour of that medical practitioner's skin, then they should then forfeit the right to receive that treatment on the NHS. So they can either go without or find the money to be treated privately by a medical professional of their choice?

There would need to be signs warning people of the consequences of their choices, of course, but if someone doesn't want a Black or Asian radiographer carry out their x-ray, then fine... they just don't get an x-ray.

I was referring to the poster who indicated that someone with medical training is unlikely to be racist. Simply not true.

my reference to the ‘thickies’ comment was overtly tongue in cheek, as a response to that presumption.

Australia pays better and often for reduced hours.

So you would avoid all doctors or HCPs from countries where women are not treated well? That's the definition of racism actually: treating all people from one country as the same.

I’d not refuse treatment because of the race of the person treating me !
how odd .
one health condition I had that needed investigation well the lovely female GP who saw and referred me is Italian. The consultant was Irish , the tech team and nurse were Filipino??
why the hell would that even bother me .
The lovely female GP who often sees myself and my daughter is Nigerian

I don't care about ethnicity or skin colour. I do care whether someone has adequate command of the English language and to a lesser extent, I am also concerned that hiring personnel from other countries deprives those countries of precious resources - i.e. medical staff.

I am really interested in what you are saying as it is in direct contradiction to other people’s views that gov isn’t recruiting doctors, nurses from the Indian subcontinent can be paid less etc.

im really keen to see evidence of either argument?

Sadly when perception of autism spectrum disorder is historically weighed down by a pervasive lack of public awareness and deep-rooted spiritual explanations and and public sentiment regarding the LGBT community is overwhelmingly negative, reinforced by both state laws and unified opposition across Christian and Muslim populations pretty much.

In that case, I guess Australians are justified in refusing to be treated by British doctors who are depriving the NHS.

Because all those HCP's have been nice to you and have communicated well.

How so? There will be no language barriers.

Sex is very different to race.

Same reason we have same sex changing rooms and not same race changing rooms (any more).

I prefer a woman doing my smear tests because she is also going to have a vagina and I want someone who is better understanding of my anatomy.

I would also feel more embarrassed around a male doctor and of course some male doctors are pervs.

You also have people who have been raped and can be traumatised by a man touching their genitalia.

However, in an emergency if the only professional available is a man then I would (and have) gratefully accept it.

You can still refuse care if it was a man but if you are in agony or you’re concerned for your baby’s health, then most people wouldn’t refuse if it meant waiting longer for a female staff member.

Sex and ethnicity are two completely different issues.

My view is if you don't want to be treated by a professional with a different skintone, then find yourself a private Doctor then you can pick who you like...however you still can't pick the nurses who will be assisting. I am happy to be treated by anyone so long as they are competent at their role. The only issue I have ever had is the very occasional thick accent.

Most of the doctors during my maternity care and A&E experiences were foreign and bloody brilliant.

On the subject of British medical students I do think they should be offered roles first (which is the case in many countries) however, again, skin colour is totally irrelevant to this as British doesn't equal white.

It would be their choice.

I don't care what Australians think.

The article makes it pretty clear that patients are making comments based on racism -

Calling HCP 'dirty foreigners'
Calling an HCP a monkey.
Saying you don't want 'anyone from an ethnic background touching my woman'
Claiming 'black people frighten me'

I don't know how anyone can excuse that.

Which makes sense. In practice, however, I suspect (as demonstrated by this thread) the NHS would be more inclined to try hard to accommodate a request for single sex treatment than a request for any sex but not a particular ethnicity even if the reasoning is essentially the same.

I would be concerned that a blanket, angry attitude about anything to do with race or, frankly, any other protected characteristic might result in a sneering, unsympathetic attitude despite being based on exactly the same premise(s) as the more 'respectable' sex-based request.

What do you think?

My point is that regardless of language, British doctors in Oz are depriving the UK of their precious services, just as apparently Nigerian doctors here are depriving Nigeria. Why is all this virtue signalling- think of the deprivatiob-confined to foreign docs in the UK, and not to British doctors in Australia.

I absolutely agree with this in principle, but I can see situations where it might become complicated. For instance, this assumes that treatment is discrete and one off. What do you do where you have a long term hospital patient receiving life saving treatment for a complex condition who cannot physically be discharged in the state that they are in, and they refuse treatment from one doctor or nurse in the course of their treatment? Yes, if the refusal is on the grounds of race, then it's abhorrent, but they can hardly be kicked out of hospital if they're hooked up to drips and ventilators and receiving life saving treatment. Similarly, what about vulnerable, confused patients with limited capacity, where there's not an actual overt reasoned refusal of treatment on the grounds of race, but instead a patient in a distressed state, or having a mental health episode or breakdown over the prospect of care or treatment from a particular HCP?

Hospitals are in many cases dumping grounds for the vulnerable and mentally ill, who cannot be discharged due to a lack of options for care elsewhere. The staff are already doing their best in difficult circumstances. I'm not sure what 'zero tolerance' would even look like in these cases, but it could make things worse.

I can't see how it would be in anyone's interest - doctor, nurse or patient's - to force treatment on someone in this way.

Imagine having to treat a neo-Nazi who actively hates you and is only consenting to treatment because the alternative is death. Best let them be treated by someone else.

Good spoken English should be a precondition of employment. My mother is 90 and a little deaf, and in the thankfully little treatment she needs generally ends up being shouted at in a near intelligible accent. Even I can’t make out what some (mainly African) doctors mean. Colour doesn’t cond into it anymore.

UK doctors can’t get work here!

I’m not sure why posters are talking about accents/being able to understand them.

This thread is about refusing care due to race.

Of course you want a medical professional you can understand, regardless of race.

I know a few white people from Scotland and I cannot understand a word they say.
My vet was from Liverpool and I could barely understand her but my surgeon was from India and I could understand him perfectly clear.

I wouldn’t refuse care purely on race or the sound of someone’s last name.

So you are admitting that you make sweeping assumptions about people based on your perceptions about their country of origin?

Are you British, and do you find that all British people share all of your own beliefs and prejudices? Because I'm British and I don't believe that I share your outlook on the world at all.

Is there a reason why you think British people might be capable of holding diverse and opposing views while people from certain countries are all apparently incapable of independent thought?

Do you think that there might be just a little bit of racism lurking in that assumption?

Nothing wrong with that. Racist actions should have consequences.

Racists would be up in arms if a Muslim man refused treatment from a woman doctor or a non-Muslim doctor. They would definitely agree that this person should forfeit the right to treatment on the NHS.

I'd never refuse treatment from a non white person but if the person treating me can't speak English to the extent I can understand them if not be happy with them treating me. I have had a doctor I couldn't understand much he said and asked if I could have other doctor next time. Both were black but one I could understand.