AIBU to worry about large numbers of undocumented men arriving in Spain?

[MaturingCheeseball]

Thousands of young men from Morocco and beyond swimming to Spain. Spain obviously has encouraged the problem with their amnesty for existing migrants, but thousands more arriving with no means of support and undocumented is going to cause huge problems. Large numbers will no doubt be ultimately trying to reach the UK.

It’s harsh, but we cannot accept infinite numbers of men.

Yes all the government seem to do is work out ways to exhort more tax out of people here to pay for the newcomers

wish we could do the same as Australia

Were you never taught that two wrongs don't make a right?

No it was yesterday or the day before.
The June incident must have been a separate one .

Rich billionaires shouldn't rape children. Illegal immigrants shouldn't be raping children as well.

It's being shown on GB news now.

I'm not going to "walk you through British rights" and derail this thread further in order to convince you we have pretty solid legal protections in this country. It really doesn't matter to me what you think, or why you hate the UK so much, i was simply highlighting your hypocrisy.
If you scroll down to the legal judgements on your own link, you'll see how potential issues were tightened up, but "notoriously floored" is one hell of a dramatic take. I personally think its a good thing we get to test the laws and legislation our government introduce, because nothing is ever perfect, even, and I hate to break this to you, Spanish laws. I also think its a good thing we can represent ourselves, rather than having to rely on a low paid, court appointed solicitor who couldnt give less of a shit about your case.

If you're trying to argue all of this though, at least be honest about what Spain offers.

3 In Spain, free state-appointed lawyers (abogados de oficio) are assigned through a formal application process based on low income or specific legal circumstances. The key steps to request one involve the local Bar Association, a legal guidance desk, and a financial evaluation.Eligibility and Application StepsVerify Qualifications: You must prove insufficient financial means to pay for legal proceedings, though certain criminal cases, asylum applications, and domestic violence situations grant automatic rights to counsel regardless of income.Visit the SOJ (Servicio de Orientación Jurídica): Go to your local Legal Guidance Office, typically run by the regional Colegio de Abogados (Bar Association), to request an initial assessment of your case.Submit Documentation: Complete the standard application form and provide proof of financial hardship, such as income statements, employment records, or identification.Appointment by the Bar Association: If your request is approved, the local Colegio de Abogados will officially and randomly assign a public defender (abogado de oficio) to manage your defense. In urgent criminal or emergency matters, a judge can order a temporary lawyer to be appointed immediately.

By “this kind of bull” I take it you mean it was lies.
Was the attachment a lie, or just didn’t fit your narrative.

Why does Spain have Europe's largest shantytown?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/06/were-living-like-wild-animals-europes-largest-shantytown-waits-in-vain-for-power

The pickpockets and street thieves of Spanish ....... Are they "Spanish"

At least the Italian government is taking it seriously.

Now there's a leader one can admire. A woman, I wonder if that's why she's far quicker to react to the danger? Good on her, anyway.

Yes. As I said, on a low income. Your text only backs up what is said. The "specific legal circumstances" part is that for some matters, people can access an abogado de oficio regardless of income.

My point earlier was regarding the fact that it is more difficult in the UK for people to know exactly what their fundamentals rights are, which makes it more difficult to exercise them, since they are not codified or listed anywhere.

Don't worry though. You can just get back to hating immigrants.

This isn't about "hating the UK". It is simply that I am trying to point out that the UK governments have a very unfortunate habit of convincing their citizens that everyone is desperate to move there because it's such a great place to live which means that British people are gaslit into believing that everything is fine when it really isn't. Some of the conditions in the UK (for example your health service, appalling public transport outside London, your issues with violent crime, gender imbalance, poor treatment of disabled people etc) are serious and should be addressed. While the UK media continues to push a narrative of how everything is so great that all these terrible immigrants are clamouring to get in there and steal your jobs and women, and funnelling the kind of hate that we have seen on this thread, people dont have time to notice and address the very serious issues you have in your own doorstep.

I don't hate the UK, better said, I feel sorry for you.

Define showing hate @IcedCoffee26 you seem to have taken this thread very personally. Why is it hateful to be worried that the UK is not tackling seriously enough hostile people coming in illegally? Make your mind up - one minute you're saying we aren't protected enough, next you're saying we are full of hate because we want our rights protected. It doesn't matter that we don't have a written constitution. A contract doesn't have to be in writing to be valid. The only one coming across as hateful and bigoted is you, about the UK.

Who could have guessed that Spain's amnesty to illegal immigrants would lead to another wave of illegal immigrants.

I am scratching my head here. Never saw it coming...

The Guardian has quoted "unknown numbers" - no surprise from that leftie source. Sky has reported thousands, as have other news outlets.The BBC, again no surprise, has reduced it to hundreds. No, we aren't talking about the June incident.

Are you under the impression that we don't live in a globalised world, where economies, supply chains, finance, migration and security are all deeply interconnected?

Migration, both legal and illegal, ebbs and flows. This year has been better - assuming the figures aren't being manipulated, which isn't something I'd take for granted - but next year it could be significantly worse. Much depends on global events. Wars, political instability, economic crises, climate-related disasters, and changes in migration policy in neighbouring countries can all alter migration patterns remarkably quickly.

This is sub-GCSE Geography stuff, I'm amazed by people's credulity sometimes.....

My husband is Italian so I read their media too. Meloni is talking about suspending the application of Schengen arrangements with Spain. Could be just talk. Still though, a migration crisis on one part of the EU's external border can rapidly affect other member states and even raise questions about the functioning of Schengen itself.

Crazy times.

For a country that in your eyes is so terrible, gives its citizens no rights and you feel sorry for us, there's a hell of a lot of people risking their lives to get here! Why is that? Leaving a country such as France with its own constitution, something that you have declared to be lacking in the UK. Have you ever lived in the UK?

Here is an example.
UK on rape
Sexual Offences Act 2003
(1)A person (A) commits an offence if—

(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

(b)B does not consent to the penetration, and

(c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents

Spain on rape

Consent is defined in art. 178 of the Codigo Penal. "Sólo se entenderá que hay consentimiento cuando se haya manifestado libremente mediante actos que, en atención a las circunstancias del caso, expresen de manera clara la voluntad de la persona."

"It will only be understood that there is consent when it has been manifested freely via acts which in attention to the circumstances of the case, express clearly the will of the person".

If you understand legal wording well you can see that in the UK definition it is weighted to whether the aggressor can convince the court that he reasonably believed that the victim concentrated. In the Spanish definition, if there weren't clear acts that ANYONE would accept as manifesting consent, then no consent existed.

Here only yes is yes. Consent must be explicit. There, if the aggressor "reasonably believed it was yes", that is enough.

This is the sort of thing that I am talking about. The UK is far behind many EU countries on these sorts of issues, but it's citizens aren't seeing it because the media is full of scaremongering about small boats and scary immigrants desperate to go there and we'll they are of course desperate to go there because everything is wonderful. This is how propaganda works. Subtly.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg4drwzkrkxo

Oh look, the "reputable" BBC are talking thousands.

I have lived in the UK for a short period yes.

And I'm not declaring that you lack a written constitution, it is a fact.

They need to be identified as valid refugees or not. The illegal ones need sending straight back to their homelands.

It's a good job Spain is so strict on rape isn't it with undocumented men swimming through borders? Although why you keep pushing the definition of rape, I don't know. We, in the UK, are well aware of what sexual assault looks like.

Another reason why the BBC should never be a ‘trusted source’

The Guardian is the one that stands out for me. It's a nice safe little outlet for readers who want sugar coated extracts, not in danger of getting the pearls clutched.