To be a bit cheesed off by this window display?

[Utterlybananas333]

Saw this on the high road today. My daughter asked what it meant bless her. The rest of the display on the other side included cross dressing obscene mannequins who had large breasts and moustaches etc. This was a charity shop that supports homelessness.

Even if not overtly obscene, something often has obscene overtones, such as people poisoning themselves with wrong sex hormones, girls cutting off healthy breasts, etc etc.

BBC News - Trans inmate jailed for Wakefield prison sex offences - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-45825838?app-referrer=deep-link
No risk, you say, @pikkumyy77?

First we need to define "trans", before we can reach any opinion about whether more trans people than women or ex-forces personnel are homeless, as a percentage or in terms of numbers. (We also need to establish for how long they were without a home – I mean, I was without a home for ten days once: I don't consider myself entitled to make one of any statistical group of homeless people.) In the 2021 census the question asked was whether someone's gender identity was different from their sex registered at birth, but that doesn't actually mean much because it doesn't say what if anything the individuals who ticked that box may have done about this. Surgery? Hormones? Wearing clothes associated with the other sex? (Are women in jeans all trans? If not, why not, when men wearing dresses aka cross-dressers come under the Stonewall trans umbrella?) Vague non-binary feelings? Gender identity is a self-declared idea, and may well have been adopted by some or even many for that census only for all we know, like people putting "pastafarian" for their religion when in fact they are simply agnostic but that isn't quirky and important enough.

And to all those individuals who are so quick to claim that anyone who doesn't kowtow to a cult quickly enough or loudly enough "hates" members of that cult, I would like to state here and now that I do not hate anybody trans, not even ones who have lied about and to me personally; in almost all cases, I pity them for having chosen to make their lives so difficult and unhealthy. I do hate the fact that their existence has been hijacked by violent men (calling themselves Trans Rights Activists) who use trans people as an excuse for violence and aggression against women, but that is not at all the same as hating individual human beings.

Being "a bit cheesed off" really does not have a whole lot to do with hatred.

More trans bollocks.

Maybe it's just me and would depend on my child being old enough to understand but I would have had a fascinating discussion about how we define our genders in sports. Like should a woman with XX chromosomes and female anatomy be allowed to compete if it is found she has a condition where her body produces testosterone at the levels of a man? How about a woman who has developed female body parts and has competed as a woman in sports until testing identifies that she has XY chromosomes and due to a deficiency in testosterone developed the outwardly female body parts. Should we stop her competing now we know? How about those with XXY chromosomes? Or that have the chromosomes and body parts naturally of a gender that feels different to the one in their heads? I think it might open up some really interesting shopping discussions about morality, fairness and making difficult choices.

It's not cross dressing though is it? I have an issue with the double mastectomy scars on the biology is not binary card in the window. I don't think young women should be rushing into such surgery and the research is starting to suggest that people are not necessarily happier post surgery.

In humans, a man (or woman) cannot change their biological sex. No matter how many surgeries they have. Or however many hormones they take. Their sex will remain male (or female). They may have a mental illness that tells them they're the opposite sex. But they aren't. It doesn't matter how much junk science you produce to try to fit your narrative. Intersex is a disorder of sex. Which is binary. And immutable.

If the only way for transwomen to cope with their (alleged) dysphoria is to live as (or 'identify' as) the opposite sex I would have had no issue with that. But I do have an issue with being told that they can 'become' that sex. Because they are male, they should not be given access to women's single sex spaces. And should not be able to compete against women in sport.

This is not transphobia. It is reality.

Of course it impacts our lives. Or have you missed all the issues allowing men who say they're women into women's spaces has caused?

Anyone who doesn't agree that men pretending to be women should not be allowed in women only spaces is now transphobic?

Mumsnet has just/automatically hidden my quote of this (link to trans crime) - hopefully it will appear soon.

So when did a man give birth?

Not all women but only women give birth. No men ever give birth.

Binary see!

My post upthread about Karen White appeared ok

It’s rather interesting how an estimated 210,000 girls may have “gone missing” due to China's population control policies before the One-Child Policy, with many of these cases attributed to sex-selective abortions.

Funny that seeing as you think sex isn't binary.

Yes YABU, nobody is forcing you to look at it, and if you didn’t know what to say to your daughter (it’s easy enough to explain), just say you don’t know.

From my point of view the real problem is not actual trans people, it is that if trans women are allowed into single-sex spaces for women only, all men have to be allowed in because otherwise discrimination is taking place.

And we do know absolutely that in this country ALL RAPE IS COMMITTED BY MEN. No ifs, buts or maybes: you have to have a penis to do it with. As the Crown Prosecution Service says, "Rape. This is when someone puts their penis into your vagina, bottom, or mouth without your consent." I am unsure why it says "their"; by definition, that pronoun ought to be "his".

@KitRange

You said 'Hormones overlap between sexes, genetalia both external and internal can develop with varying characteristics."

This was disproved by this

men’s testosterone levels
average 19 years and older. 650 ng/dL
women’s testosterone levels
average 19 years and older. 8–60 ng/dL
Elevated testosterone in women causing PCOS 30-95 ng/dL
there is literally no overlap because sex is binary, even a 70 year old man has 350ng/dl

please could you respond?

Of course no-one is forcing her to look at it! However, when you're out and about you notice things. Or at least I do.

I hope you made a complaint to the regional manager

I've never had a post hidden before!

I can’t give you exact stats but I can tell you I volunteer in a charity shop and we have plenty of trans customers, often make to female looking for clothes but have had the other way around too. I do a shift a week and it’s rare to not get at least one or two. Most are really lovely and often ask for advice on whether something really suits them, they are responsive when I say something looks ridiculous too. I’ve helped dozens to find an outfit for an event that suits their acquired finger but also is respectful of women, not a characature. That window though isn’t a good display and is needlessly controversial

Yes, there must have been something which triggered the response which is often automatic and not a mod.

I'm not sure what the point of your post is?

And come home and make a post about it on MN, because you are “cheesed off”

Bean soup theory - if it isn’t about you, just move on.

I think they probably are?