AIBU in thinking that this is an unfair expectation on parents

[GumballWaterson]

DD12 goes to a weekly Musical Theatre class which costs us £200 per term.

This summer they are doing a performance, two weeks of rehearsals followed by a dress rehearsal and three performances across two days. It costs £150 per child to take part and tickets for the show are £16 each. We have to provide a costume. Driving her to and from rehearsals and performances (an hour round trip) has taken some juggling with work, younger DC etc but all fine, that's what we agreed to.

A couple of weeks back they sent out an email stating "we expect all parents to chaperone or help out backstage for at least one performance or the dress rehearsal. You must let us know which performance/s you will be volunteering for by completing this form by X date". No "please" or "if you are able to" or "we would be grateful if", just a straight up demand.

When I dropped DD off this morning I spoke to one of the managers and politely told her that DH and I are unable to help. I explained that DH will be at work during the dress rehearsal and first performance and I will be looking after DD's younger brother, then for the other two performances one of us will be in the audience and the other will be at home with DS as he would not be able to sit through the show due to SEND. She responded with what I can only describe as a lecture, about how they "do expect all families to make arrangements" because "it really isn't fair on the parents that make the effort" and if they don't have enough chaperones the performances can't legally go ahead and "it's the children who will suffer if parents don't support the show". This was all delivered unnecessarily loudly, I got the impression she wanted me to feel embarrassed by other parents and staff hearing.

AIBU to think I shouldn't be berated for not supporting a business that I pay £600 a year in class fees to, in addition to the nearly £200 it's costing us for DD to do this show + tickets? Not to mention DD has given up several days of her summer holiday to help out at their under 5's dance workshops, for which they also charge parents a small fortune!
I don't want to stop DD taking part in future because it's good for her confidence, but I don't feel it should be my responsibility as the customer of a profit-making business to ensure their events are appropriately staffed. The only way we could make this work is if one of us doesn't watch the show, and helps out backstage instead but DD would be disappointed that we hadn't both seen her perform, plus we've already bought the tickets.

They're basing their operating model on the assumption that all the kids have grandparents, aunts and uncles, available during the workday, or no siblings. OP was asked to magic up these relatives to help.

If they're not getting enough volunteers I'd suggest changing this assumption.

DC play a similar sport but are affected by this. They're often posting on the app stuff like "without more people coming forward to volunteer we will need to cancel x or y" "everyone must take a turn on the rota once a quarter so it's fair on everyone. We all want to stand watching our children play x" "if no one volunteers to do the food stand the children won't get fed after the match" and on it goes.

Thank you. This is my perspective too, but I think you've articulated it better.

It's very clear from some of the responses on this thread that there's a lot of resentment from some people who volunteer for PTA, kids sports and other activities towards those that don't. I can understand that to an extent. But there's also a lot of assumptions being made about other people's lives, attitudes and circumstances. How do you know that the Mum you feel entitled to judge because she never volunteers for PTA events doesn't volunteer at her local homeless shelter, or help her elderly neighbour out with housework or shopping? You wouldn't because those things don't affect you directly, and not everyone makes a big song and dance about the unpaid work they do.

I have a friend who works in a highly stressful and demanding public sector job that I imagine few of us would want to do, or be capable of doing, but society as a whole benefits from massively. She's also Autistic and has to make a conscious choice to conserve her energy and social battery outside of work so that she can continue to function in her job and parent her children. I remember when our children were younger she was collared by the head of the school PTA and pressured into "volunteering", and then made to feel awful when she said tried to say no. Why should she have to disclose her disability to someone she barely knows to justify not doing something that is meant to be voluntary?

This is fairly standard for performing arts/dance schools for kids. I pay £120 per month for dd's musical theatre (3hours per week)-so £600 per year sounds like a dream! The summer showcase which is for every student is free to perform in (but have to pay for tickets to watch) but the big musical each year costs £250 to perform in (assuming they are successful at audition) plus they expect a parent from each family to chaperone for at least one of the tech/dress rehearsals or shows (we are all dbs checked at the company's cost). Also factor in cost of tickets (they're around £25-30 per ticket) and travelling to and from the theatre for rehearsals and shows. I usually take annual leave for the week and really enjoy it! It's like a musical theatre family! Every time I think of removing my daughter from classes to free some money up I think of the quality of the productions, her joy when up on stage, and all the skills, friendships and wonderful things she gains from it and can't bear to remove her. That being said, if she doesn't get into the show this year I would talk with her about potentially stopping as GCSE year. Similarly, I am not sure if she will continue once in sixth form, as she is quite academic and has high aspirations for future career etc so it may be too much for her to keep this up along with part time job etc.

This.
the only way in which it would be ok is making it very clear in advance of taking part in any of the sessions. And there should be an option of either volunteering or paying slightly more to not volunteer. Broadly, it seems wrong as you r paid a lot for it in the first place.

Also saw that your dd volunteers with holiday classes for free which I think is a bit of a piss take (teenage volunteers at dd's school get paid for helping out) and I would say as that is already helping the school in a different way that should be taken into consideration and negate the need for a parent volunteer for the show.

At dd's the expectation is for a parent for each child to help but they do understand not all families can for various reasons.

Blimey, people saying this is the ‘norm’ for dance/theatre schools etc. This has clearly changed drastically from when I went to dance school 30 odd years ago!

Parents volunteered their help. It certainly wasn’t demanded. My mother can draw, so used to go to the dance teachers home for meetings to draw up the costume ideas with her. She wasn’t expected to do this though, she was asked if she wouldn’t mind helping! And parents could volunteer to help out backstage to get the kids changed and ensure they drank/ate etc. Nothing was ever ‘demanded’ or ‘expected’.

And we didn’t have to pay a fee to be involved in the dance shows. And ALL kids from each dance year would be involved. Ticket sales etc would cover costs. It was just the costumes the parents had to financially contribute to and make. And even back then they made a video for parents to buy after.

The woman’s attitude is pretty rude. You can’t just expect people to do this. You make it clear beforehand that X number of volunteers are needed to support with the show going ahead. Not just drop this info on people after they’ve paid. She should ensure she has enough people who’ve said they can assist before going ahead with any shows. Not just assume all parents can help out.

@GumballWaterson Fair enough, point taken and obviously I didn’t know about your other volunteering from your posts. I have volunteered quite a bit too and have had pretty mixed feelings about it at times!

But still the problem is that this dance-show activity particularly needs volunteers - perhaps more than some other kinds of activity - because of the law around child performers.

You can’t volunteer this time, but would you be willing to do so next time?

I also don’t think it particularly matters that it is run as a for-profit company. Children’s activities take place in a mixed economy of state, private and voluntary providers. Does it actually make much profit?

Their activities are educational so they could easily change their operating model and set up as a charity next year, but they would still have the same need for volunteers. More volunteers in fact, as they would need trustees.

Typical first reply snark.

I don’t believe every other parent is doing this. Are you friends or acquaintances with any of the others that you could ask?

I don't think you're being unreasonable. You've already paid substantial class fees, extra performance fees, bought tickets and rearranged your family schedule to support your daughter. Volunteering is lovely when people are genuinely able to help, but I don't think it should be presented as an obligation, especially by a business that charges for its services. I also don't think the way they spoke to you was appropriate. If they legally need a certain number of chaperones, that really needs to be made clear before parents commit to the production so families can decide whether it's manageable. I'd probably enjoy watching my child perform rather than spending the show backstage too.

I would be willing to chaperone another time, assuming I could make it work around my job and caring responsibilities. The fact is those things will always come first. But now I know it's not volunteering, it's mandatory so if DD wants to do a show in future I'll have to check that we can sort childcare, time off work etc for those dates and if we can't then she won't do the show.

I don't agree that there's no distinction between a thriving, profit-making business and a small community theatre group staffed entirely by volunteers. On the advice of a previous poster I've looked them up on companies house out of curiosity and this is a very financially healthy organisation. Although even our DC's activities that are run entirely by volunteers on a shoe-string budget don't demand parents give up their time. They ask politely, they're appreciative when we say yes, and they understand if people can't do it.

I don't know any of the other parents. I'm either dropping off and then running to the next thing, or if I do hang around while she's doing her classes I'm on my laptop trying to get some work done. Other parents seem to be much the same, it's not really a social thing.

They are being ridiculous and I suspect they know it, hence their unnecessarily vigorous defence of this policy.

For every parent that can't help out there will be another parent who loves helping out and will happily volunteer for multiple performances.

I was a mostly SAHM mum and loved helping behind the scenes at school and clubs. I didn't resent working parents who couldn't do the same.

All this sounds way over the top, not least the horrible attitude of the manager you spoke to, whose answer was more like you were unable to do a task you were being paid for. The amount you are paying for your DD to attend, take part and provide costumes for shows is substantial, and you might have thought it would cover backstage assistants who should, as others have said, be cleared to do so (I would not be happy with just anyone helping with costume changes for my child). As others have also said, I would definitely look round for alternative theatre workshops.

Not only is their attitude appalling (you are essentially their customer, and this is no way to run a business) but how do you know the other parents who've been coopted to help out are safe? Presumable they won't all be DBS checked? Does the dance school have policies about this? What's their proposed strategy if somebody turns out to be a bit inappropriate? I think I'd be looking for a different class!

Lots of people have asked about the DBS situation. It's not entirely clear to me.
On the form it says you can either be an Approved Chaperone (if you have a licence from the council) or a Parent Chaperone. It asks you to tick a box to say whether or not you are already a licenced Chaperone. Then it gives a link to the council website and says if you're interested in becoming one you need to follow the instructions here- no mention of them paying the fee so assuming parents expected to self fund. It also asks you to tick a box to say whether you have a DBS or not. Nowhere does it say that not having a DBS would preclude you from being a parent chaperone, and since they insist every parent must help presumably they realise not every parent will have one? Maybe parents who don't have a DBS have to be supervised by their staff. It's not clear at all.

Licensed chaperones will be used to having non DBS checked people backstage. For example you cannot expect a theatre to have every backstage techie DBS checked (though many who regularly have children's shows will do so as good practice). Similarly my son is a pit band player for musical theatre shows, often involving children and he has never been asked for a DBS.

However for general backstage help it would be poor practice for someone working directly woith the children (such as a volunteer dresser for quick changes) to not be DBS checked.

Several posts have suggested that this dance school should pay people to act as licensed chaperones, which they would need to be in this role.

But how many people on this thread would actually do this role themselves on a paid basis? You need to be available, flexible, willing to do odd hours in the evenings and I am sure the rate of pay wouldn’t be that great. You would also need to have the necessary skillset in working with children, as it is different doing it with children who are not your own or your child’s friends. Plus paying and training to get the license.

Or would some of you volunteer in this role at your local dance school if your own children were not taking part? Once your children are older and the dance school years are long behind you?

I will be impressed if anyone replies but I suspect it will be tumbleweed!

I worked in schools for years and met one TA who was a licensed chaperone on the side. This was in London, with theatres all over the place.

Funnily enough I have thought of becoming a licensed chaperone myself, as I enjoy working with children, have the DBS and enjoy the performing arts. OP, if this dance school is in the South East let me know!

It may be unreasonable to put pressure on parents to do this but they must meet legal requirements and is very little incentive for anyone who isn’t a current parent to get involved.

And what exactly are they going to do if you don’t respond? Call the police on you?

I understand your dilemma but you are being naively nice. Ignore it, make a formal complaint to that company got that persons behaviour and the way the have spoken to you in public. I seriously doubt they will expels your daughter while you are paying! If they do deal with it separately and speak to her and take it from there.

why the hell are you letting some stranger put that pressure on you and exactly what are you scared of will happen if you don’t comply with their demand? Worst case scenario, your daughter is upset and you need to enrol her elsewhere. It is frustrating and upsetting IF that even happened, but trust me she will get over it and won’t really remember in few months/years. And that is the WORST case catastrophic scenario - chances are won’t come to this and is just your anxiety/trying to please playing in your head. If I had overheard this conversation- I sure as hell would be putting that “teacher” in her place. Because no, you are not unreasonable and it is not her place to speak to you like that or place expectations on families they don’t know. I couldn’t give an F what is fair to other families if it didn’t work for mine. For what I know, they can all be stay at home mums, rolling in a pile of cash with 30 people and nanny helping them 🤷

You might not know this, but your ONLY paying £600 annually for a weekly theatre class. That's like free! Piano weekly classes are over £2300 annually and drums are over £1800. And the drums are so cheap because we have an 18 year old in her gap year.

I can see why they need volunteers, they can't afford a proper staff.

I can guarantee that not every parent will be able to volunteer. Guarantee

Has she chased you? She won’t i reckon

as long as at the end of your life history you gave her As to why you couldn’t - you did actually leave it as a “not possible, bye” and not a wooly “I will see what I can do”?

Of course 1:1 lessons are a lot more expensive than group classes where you generally average 10-15 students per class. (wife of a music teacher and ex musical theatre school owner here)

£2,300 spread over the average 36 week teaching year is £64 per week. If you are paying that for piano lessons then you are being ripped off unless its a one off professor level consulation lesson.

Current MU rates are £44 per hour. Thats £1,584 per year depending on how many weeks it is.

In my experience it is normal to ask for a bit of parents’ time and help in theatre classes. We pay extra to see the show because they put it on in a proper theatre. I help out with set design and props etc. The classes are quite expensive, but I know the owner is not making lots of money (he is a friend of mine). They definitely should have given you warning of the expectation, but I don’t think that it’s an unusual request.

Like @Dentisttoday I think kthr conversation has been had. You've done your role as whipping boy and the other mums in earshot will be sure to hand their forms in. Quietly, just don't and that will be the end of it.

There is some real hyperbole and misplaced snobbery on this thread. My children danced at one very grass roots, inclusive street dance school that didn't ask for parent helpers at all and also at a much more "exclusive" dance school that asked much more of parents who were already paying much more. I think at the latter they were quicker to assume families have more social capital, more mums not working etc. But even they did not pretend to need parent to child ratios of 1:3 or more. (There will always need to be room leaders or similar doing multiple performances.)