AIBU in thinking that this is an unfair expectation on parents

[GumballWaterson]

DD12 goes to a weekly Musical Theatre class which costs us £200 per term.

This summer they are doing a performance, two weeks of rehearsals followed by a dress rehearsal and three performances across two days. It costs £150 per child to take part and tickets for the show are £16 each. We have to provide a costume. Driving her to and from rehearsals and performances (an hour round trip) has taken some juggling with work, younger DC etc but all fine, that's what we agreed to.

A couple of weeks back they sent out an email stating "we expect all parents to chaperone or help out backstage for at least one performance or the dress rehearsal. You must let us know which performance/s you will be volunteering for by completing this form by X date". No "please" or "if you are able to" or "we would be grateful if", just a straight up demand.

When I dropped DD off this morning I spoke to one of the managers and politely told her that DH and I are unable to help. I explained that DH will be at work during the dress rehearsal and first performance and I will be looking after DD's younger brother, then for the other two performances one of us will be in the audience and the other will be at home with DS as he would not be able to sit through the show due to SEND. She responded with what I can only describe as a lecture, about how they "do expect all families to make arrangements" because "it really isn't fair on the parents that make the effort" and if they don't have enough chaperones the performances can't legally go ahead and "it's the children who will suffer if parents don't support the show". This was all delivered unnecessarily loudly, I got the impression she wanted me to feel embarrassed by other parents and staff hearing.

AIBU to think I shouldn't be berated for not supporting a business that I pay £600 a year in class fees to, in addition to the nearly £200 it's costing us for DD to do this show + tickets? Not to mention DD has given up several days of her summer holiday to help out at their under 5's dance workshops, for which they also charge parents a small fortune!
I don't want to stop DD taking part in future because it's good for her confidence, but I don't feel it should be my responsibility as the customer of a profit-making business to ensure their events are appropriately staffed. The only way we could make this work is if one of us doesn't watch the show, and helps out backstage instead but DD would be disappointed that we hadn't both seen her perform, plus we've already bought the tickets.

It's a bit like book day in a normal school. Dress up. Who has the time and bother. Women have to work.
My next door neighbour (a man) spent a fortune on ballet, theatre, acting, violin, oboe. The girl is up the duff now and living in a council flat. Her baby is never near her. Read a fucking book.

My children have attended various dance and musical theatre clubs for years, I would not be happy with a set up of unchecked random volunteer parents acting as the chaperones. At our current club the shows are chaperoned by a mix of professional chaperones and licensed volunteers.

@GumballWaterson you’ve actually got a great deal, £200 for 2 weeks entertainment for your DC during the school holidays is an absolute bargain! They’re hardly profitable on that, so yes, I think it’s fine for them to request some parent support at the shows seen as they are effectively babysitting your DC for 2 weeks. Also £600 for a year’s worth of classes / entertainment is a bargain too.

What?

I belonged to dance schools as a child and then semi professionally and then worked as a performer. I also worked in one and know people who set up their own businesses and schools, some offer exams, some put on shows. So I know what I'm talking about and.... Honestly. This dance school is ridiculous. Never heard of anything so stupid. Shouldnt have to pay to be in a show that's what the termly fees are for. Competitions are different because there is usually a fee to enter it etc etc. Never had to chaperone as this was taken care of by people volunteering or being paid by the business. It's not well organised

@GumballWaterson I'd suck it up this time and instead of one if you watching the performance, just help out instead. It'll save you the cost or a ticket.

I'd then look for another club as this one sounds profit focused rather than passion about musical theatre.

As a comparison my DD goes to a dance club. Its about £180 a term for 2 classes a week then for the show we pay about £20 which pays for the costume and extra rehersal date. No chaperoning as the teacher sorts that out herself. We just buy tickets to the show.

On the other hand my DS went to a chain brand of martial arts and it soon became apparent that the main focus was profit. Paying for gradings and they passed anyone who paid. Paying for extra classes. Paying for their branded sparing kit (3x the price of a generic one that was better) then the last straw was saying they'd like DS to help in the junior class then informing me that I would have to pay for him to help!! Needless to say we quit and found a much better club!!

Do they really mean ALL parents - so not just the female ones? Not just one from each family - which will end up being mostly mums? If you do it, they'll still want to know when they'll be seeing dad? I'm sorting of weirdly impressed with them, if so.

Still, I'd just ignore the form. Just brush it off in a breezy, "oh no, I'm not free!" sort of way if they raise it.

I don't think anyone running a small misical theatre company is " raking it in".
OP pays £200 per term, she doesn't say but that is often circa 3 hours a week. A term is usually 10 weeks so £20/3 hrs so £6:50/hr - that's not expensive. If she has 20 in her troop that's £400 per week. She will need a helper even minimum wage for 4 hours is £60 ( music/ drama teachers unlikely to be minimum wage- also may need to pay employer's NI), then the rent of wherever she teaches ( church hall is £15/hr so another £60) that's minimum £120 out of the £400 before music, props, costumes etc. Nobody is doing this for the money...

@GumballWaterson You’re absolutely not being unreasonable. This isn’t a school production or a charity group, it’s a commercial business charging you £200 a term, £150 for the show, £16 a ticket, plus you providing costumes and doing an hour’s round‑trip driving twice a day for two weeks. That is already a huge commitment on your part.

It is not your responsibility to ensure a profit‑making organisation has adequate staffing. If they legally require licensed chaperones, then they need to hire them or factor that cost into the £150 show fee. Plenty of theatre schools manage this without demanding unpaid labour from parents.

Their “we expect all families to make arrangements” line is unreasonable. You have made arrangements, you’ve rearranged work, managed SEND needs, provided transport, paid the fees, bought the tickets, and supported your DD’s involvement. You made the assessment as to whether all of this was possible on their enrolment details and its them that have shifted the boundaries. You simply cannot also provide free staffing, and that’s a perfectly valid boundary.

The manager lecturing you loudly was unprofessional and frankly manipulative. Trying to embarrass you in front of other parents is not acceptable. You explained your situation politely; she chose to respond with pressure and guilt‑tripping.

If they genuinely cannot run the show without parent volunteers, then they need to rethink their business model or be upfront about it prior to enrolment. They cannot charge families hundreds of pounds and then insist on unpaid labour on top.

You’re right not to sacrifice watching your DD perform. She would be disappointed, and you’ve already paid for the tickets. You’ve also said you have no annual leave left and no childcare, that’s not “not making the effort”, that’s simply reality.

Your DD helping at their holiday workshops (which they charge £75 a day for!) only underlines the point: they are already relying on unpaid teens to keep costs down while charging premium prices.

You’ve done more than enough. They don’t get to demand more.

I would be tempted to email them alone the following lines, whether you feel this is appropriate is up to you:

I wanted to follow up in writing after our conversation this morning regarding chaperoning for the upcoming summer show.

As I explained, both my husband and I have unavoidable commitments during the dress rehearsal and first performance, and for the remaining performances one of us will be in the audience while the other will be at home caring for our younger son, who is unable to attend due to his SEND needs. We therefore cannot volunteer backstage on this occasion.

We fully support our daughter’s involvement in the production and have already made significant arrangements to ensure she can take part, including adjusting work schedules, managing daily travel, providing her costume, and covering the associated fees and tickets. We were able to make this commitment prior to enrolment based on your stated requirements at that time, which made no mention of the need to chaperone at this show. We are very happy for her to participate and have been committed throughout.

However, we are not in a position to provide additional staffing. I appreciate that organising a production of this scale is complex, but as paying customers we are unable to take on a compulsory volunteering role, and I hope you can understand that our circumstances simply do not allow it. We have a SEND child so one parent will be looking after them at home as they cannot attend events of this nature and one in the audience to support our child, we have no leave left and our only other childcare option are abroad at that time.

I wanted to make sure this was clear and avoid any misunderstanding. We look forward to seeing the show and supporting the children’s hard work.

I think it's unreasonable to expect all parents to volunteer as everyone circumstances are different, OP you are unable to help due to your circumstances and they should not make you feel bad about it.

Kick up a fuss about whether all the parents are DBS checked since they’ll be backstage with young girls changing

@GumballWaterson
Seriously?
You can't be the only parents not able to "help out" as they put it
I'm not sure what you should do as your daughter obviously enjoys being there
But
I reckon if it were me I'd stick to my guns and expect perhaps a little more 'dissaproval' but forwarned means your forarmed
And your money will always talk

My daughter goes to a few dance classes, they do two shows per year which aren't compulsory however every child must have an adult with them backstage, no adult no show. You are able to "double up" with other parents, I look after her wee friend one show, friends parent takes her the next but they are very strict on having an adult. We know this prior to show sign up though so have time to make arrangements.

You’re not being unreasonable. I have put my DD through a few different activities - and they might ask for parent volunteers but they will not enforce it.

it’s up to them to find the staffing and volunteers, and of course there will be parents that can help out, but every single parent?

I find these days people forget that parents have to work too. I’ve had situations where I haven’t been able to take part in something related to my child, and the assumption seems to be that my diary is eternally free.

I would have a look at the management system and see who else is involved. It sounds like a one person band that is trying to do things on a shoe string budget.

My child is in a similar soundng group and we do not have to volunteer. However I pay nearly double the fees you are paying.

I think you are getting a bargain. Just explain your other child will have to be with you while you volunteer. If that means you spend the majority of your time watching him, so be it.

Although your reasons for not being able to do it this time are fine I think you are being a bit unreasonable in your general attitude towards volunteering, as they are legally obliged to have chaperones. As per the cost breakdown above, no one is making their fortune from putting on children’s dance classes. The cost of £200 per term seems pretty reasonable compared to other activities. The cost of putting on the show also seems fair enough, what with lights, sets, insurance, special effects and licensing; expectations are higher and no one is entertained by the homespun efforts of yesteryear…

But, they should have communicated this need well in advance and also spoken to you more reasonably at the door. Or is the fact that they need parent volunteers actually explained on their website?

Unfortunately, many people see the word ‘volunteer’ and assume that it means ‘someone other than me’…School PTAs are a case in point.

The idea of paying for licensed chaperones has been suggested as a solution, but it might simply be the case that no one is available locally to do it? If you are in a big city with lots of theatres there are probably loads of professional chaperones around; not so many in a small town. It’s not an easy problem to solve, especially as the requirements around DBS checks are being tightened up from September.

Who is paying for all the DBS's for these parents to be chaperoning ? Surely they aren't having people who haven't been checked in any way , look after a bunch of kids.... I can imagine all the legal fun and games around that....
May have been answered before but it's the first thing that came to mind as I started to read the thread

The organisers are not reasonable to expect anyone to volunteer to support their business without prior agreement and a clear description of the role/s expected.

Lots of parents are unsuitable to be placed in a supervisory role with other people’s children — for a wide variety of reasons.

It seems they want the funds for the show before letting parents know they don’t have the staff to run the event.

I would consider writing to them about the fact that they were not upfront and clear that every child’s participation in the show came at a financial AND time cost for the parents. Had they made that clear, parents could have been prepared to make that commitment at the point of payment or not included their children.

That’s pathetic, I can’t believe people accept it as Normal. In my home country there are plenty of performance arts and dance activities and on serious level and none of that is expected and normal

why do people put up with it??

Weekly classes are an hour long.

20-30 kids in a class, one paid staff member per class, occasionally with an older teen volunteering but not always.

There's always 2-3 drama/musical theatre/dance classes going on simultaneously in different spaces at the venue. Same with the holiday workshops, although these have more kids volunteering to help out in addition to one paid staff member, probably because the children are often younger and the workshops can last all day so they need more help.

They're not renting a venue. All classes, workshops and shows happen within a self-contained venue that is owned by the company.
Parents provide costumes. They cleary rely very heavily on a core group of older teen volunteers who seem to be there a lot and do everything from helping run workshops, to painting scenery, to selling programmes and manning the doors at shows, to hoovering the venue.

I am sure the owners aren't just doing it for the money. I'm sure they live and breathe it, and running costs for the venue must be significant. But I am also sure it's a financially healthy business. We're not talking about a small community theatre group renting a church hall.

Yeah I think this sounds quite cheap. My DD is doing a MT show next week. it cost £400 to take part plus we have to buy tickets, which are also on sale to the general public. For £400 we get 6 days of full day rehearsals, then 12 shows. We don’t have to volunteer at all, it’s all covered my employees and older teen volunteers. Similar local groups have much cheaper participation fees but they are charities which get grants and do fundraising. They also tend not to have an intensive week of rehearsals which doubles up as holiday childcare.

Most of the other things DD does do require parent volunteers - it’s never been compulsory but obviously it can affect the viability of the activity of not enough people volunteer. Our local playgroup shut permanently because they can’t get enough parents to sit on the board of trustees. It had been running for 40 years.

i do think it is reasonable for you to be annoyed. The volunteering requirements were not made clear at the beginning and her conduct in discussing it with you was completely unacceptable. They should also have an exceptions policy or just some compassion.

But I think it’s also possible you might have slightly unreasonable expectations about how much this sort of thing would cost without parent volunteers, and maybe you are a bit unaware of all the unpaid labour myself and others are putting into these shows and activities to keep them viable and vaguely affordable.

You're making assumptions about my attitude to volunteering. I've been volunteering in my local community my whole adult life. I have also been a school Govenor, and a pre-school trustee. DH regularly helps out at Scouts and DS's football team, and has helped out at a local community centre supporting Ukrainian refugees. This is in addition to us both working full time and parenting two children with additional needs. The fact is we chose to do those things, in other words we volunteered. It's not volunteering if you're ordered to do it. What I object to is a business telling it's paying customers they will give up their time, rather than asking. Especially as this expectation was not made clear at the outset.

I cant believe they are charging you to do the show, surely thats what the ticket sales are for. I have previously run a musical theatre club so know how much money is needed.

I'm getting an absolute bargain according to some posters! Although several others have said the same as you, so there's clearly a wide variation in how these places are run, but everyone thinks the set up they're used to is "normal".

I actually have no objection to paying for DD to do the show. That's what I signed up for and we're lucky we can afford it.

I would consider writing to them about the fact that they were not upfront and clear that every child’s participation in the show came at a financial AND time cost for the parents. Had they made that clear, parents could have been prepared to make that commitment at the point of payment or not included their children.

Please only do the above if your child doesn't wish to continue in the group. It WILL cause awkwardness and bad feeling which will make future dealings with the organisers very uncomfortable.