Is it ever ok for a child to hit a child back?

[dobbledo]

If a child is constantly being hit by a younger sibling 2 years younger and smaller than them with SEN is it ever ok for them to hit them back?

The younger one doesn't get to "refuse point blank", You take him out and make him stay out. Every single time.

What a weird, lazy arse way to approach this. So does the older one have to give £1 back to the younger one every time they are hit now?

The money thing didn't work, so that's clearly not something sufficiently "worth it" for the younger one. You need to find a consequence that really matters to them. Can you think of something they really like or dislike? Screen time? Having to do the washing up every night? There must be something.

So take them out again and again before they end up being removed permanently and placed in a prison cell they can’t escape for punching someone in the street.

It’s not easy having a child with Sen. (I have one) but it’s also not fair for your elder kid to be a victim of that Sen.

As an aside have a look at young actors groups for your eldest where they can mix with other kids who truly understand being a sibling of someone with Sen.

I say this gently, but that seems almost like the younger child has paid a pound a go to be able to hit their older sibling? It doesn’t seem like a ‘consequence’ directly related to what the child did. If the consequence was that the younger child must leave the room no matter what they are doing (perhaps they will miss out on watching the end of a film or playing a particular game that they would have been doing) that’s a direct consequence and a necessary one, as it also protects the older child.

I think there's a difference between a child hitting back in the moment (understandable) and being told to hit a smaller child. As adults I think you need to find a different solution to this.

Your husband telling the older child to hit back is not OK.

They will not do the washing up and would refuse (oppositional defiance) they’d say no and there’s no way to force them, they’d lash out and then still refuse the same as with any chores, they will adamantly refuse.
They have lost all toys and screen time and treats and now money, there’s nothing left.

I know this sounds bad but when I was 10 I would’ve goaded my little brother into punching me if I thought I’d be getting a pound each time 😁

This, are you advocating that the older one should just accept the younger one hitting them and doing what they want?

if that’s how you plan, then they will be in for a rude awakening at a school when someone doesn’t have the “this is how they are, I be need to accept this” and wallops them back?

This!

oppositional defiance. A fancy pathologising term for a little shit.

You need to get a grip on this because it’ll not be long before the child is bigger than you and stronger than you. Then they’ll start hitting you and you’ll be utterly bewildered about where it came from. DC with SEN can be taught other ways of dealing with issues in the moment, you need to start with that process as soon as possible.

They clearly don’t care about loosing money and yes, it’s like they can hit, pay the price and it’s all good. I’m amazed your older child hasn’t already hit them back.

My DC has complex needs and was a hitter. What worked was removing them from the situation every single time, no matter where we were or what they missed out on, I’d physically remove them if need be. That meant sitting with them at times, or getting them to come and do a chore or task with me - nothing fun or pleasurable but time next to me. If they wreck their joint bedroom, they work with you to put it back together again.

It also meant, when things had calmed down, helping them find ways to express their feelings and to reset their regulation system. That might mean going for a long walk, sensory input like water, play dough, making noise or music, dancing it out, throwing soft bean bags outside - anything that gets them moving, and brings them physically into their body. Cold drinks through straws (the sucking motion helps regulate). Basically you can’t discipline it out of them but you need to consistently address it.

With your older child id be clear it’s not ok, you’re working on it and show them that you’re working on it. If they can’t be together keep them separate, if that means one is in a room with you while the other does something else, so be it. Yes it’s bloody hard work but better now when you still have some influence than in a few years time when he’s tearing up your house.

What do you mean they'll refuse? Your son is 8. He doesn't get to refuse.

I have 2 children, 5yo dd literally has never hit a child in her life, ever, it’s just not in her nature. 3 year old DS who isn’t a big hitter but does hit his sister sometimes, yes we deal with it consequences etc etc but he is 3 and I think it is just a phase that he is going through. I’m definitely not a hit them back type of parent but I do secretly hope that my daughter would just give him a bit of a slap sometimes! I reckon it’s what he really needs! He’s worked out she won’t hit him and takes advantage of it.

Why can’t the children be separated on holiday? I’ve literally just brought my 4 year old back to the hotel room for hitting her big sister in the pool!

ETA: DD1 is with her dad at the pool, I haven’t just abandoned her

So this is years of very shit parenting then , another case of people just having kids coz they can with no idea on how to raise them , prepare yourself for the eldest to become nc with you in the future

I don’t know, I’d not leave my child thinking they couldn’t defend themselves if someone was assaulting them - whoever it was. Yes the husband needs to parent more effectively to stop the older child being hit, but I’d also be recognising that no one will take being a punchbag forever and if older child hits back to defend himself, I’m not going to worry too much about that but it would be a clear sign I was failing to protect my child and needed to up my game considerably.

Yes, this is what I had to do occasionally. I hauled DS2 away to the car/hotel room while DH stayed with DS1.

If there was a sure way to stop them hitting then I would do it but nothing we try works.
The older sibling is so quiet and softly spoken and just cowers and cries while the younger one is loud fierce and in their face despite the younger one being considerably smaller but feisty.
It’s hard because the older one wouldn’t hurt a fly and has such a kind heart and doesn’t want to hit back but also doesn’t want to be hit but nothing we try works.
We also get hit and shouted at too but it’s the older child that gets upset.

My sister used to hit me regularly as a child until one day I snapped and hit her back, she never hit me again.

The same thing happened with my mum unfortunately, she slapped me across the face when I was a teenager and it was one time too many. I hit her back and she never hit me again.

It’s not something I am proud of but everyone has a limit.

It is always ok to hit someone if you have no other way to protect yourself and escape a situation.

You remove your younger child. Every single time. Even if that means one of you goes home, or back to the hotel room, or to sit in the car.

I dont understand. Why can’t you keep them apart?

In the car, one sits in the front, the other in the back.

Don’t let them share a room. Whether at home or on holiday. If needs be, you and your DH sleep with a child each.

Clearly your youngest doesn’t care about “stuff” so punishments like the silly £1 thing was never going to work.

You need to physically prevent your youngest from attacking his brother. You need to protect your eldest. You’re the adult.

What are the consequences for hitting and shouting at you? There’s no sure fire way that’s a “one and done”, it’s complete consistency across you and your husband, every single time the child lifts their hand coupled with emotional literacy to avoid it getting to the point where they’re hitting.