DS attacked another child at soft play unprovoked - AIBU to think we’ve reached crisis point now?

[donyak]

I dont even know where to start but I took my youngest to soft play today, my older boys were at school and I thought it would be nice to have an hour just me and him but we ended up leaving after 20 minutes because he attacked a little boy

When I say attacked I don’t mean a squabble over a toy. He barged him over and then climbed on top of him and was hitting him before I got there. The other little boy was crying and his mum was understandably furious with me. She kept saying “get him off” as though I wasn’t already trying, I apologised over and over and did offer to pay for a new drink for the little boy as it had done everywhere but they weren’t interested. Another parent was saying I shouldn’t bring a child like that to soft play

He’s only just turned 3 but everyone thinks he’s older because he’s so tall, he’s built like a 5 year old so people expect him to behave like one too which doesn’t help as mentally he’s still only 3. But when he loses it he’s so strong it isn’t just a tantrum where you can pick him up and take him away. He kicks, headbutts and lashes out

I’ve tried all the obvious things. I don’t smack or shout all the time. He has routines, he sleeps fairly well most nights but usually in with me. He eats alright apart from vegetables. I’ve read books, watched videos, spoke to nursery when he was there, spoken to health visitor, tried reward charts which did nothing.

His nursery asked him to leave about 6 weeks ago. They said they couldn’t keep everyone safe anymore and they didn’t have enough staff to give him the support he needed. There had been biting, pushing and one incident where he threw a wooden block . They said they were sorry but thought another setting would be better suited

I can’t find anywhere else it’s either full or has waiting lists. A couple have asked why he’s left his previous nursery and when I’m honest I hear nothing back. It’s meant I can’t work as there’s no one to have him. Their mum died 2 years ago

And I’m trying to keep things normal for them but every month something goes wrong. there’s no family that could help, my parents are gone and my wife’s parents live hours away and aren’t well enough to have an energetic 3 year old

I’ve spoken to the GP, we’ve been referred for assessments and everyone agrees he needs looking at but there’s waiting lists and I’m just trying to make sure he doesn’t hurt anyone else or himself which didn’t work today

People assume because he’s badly behaved I’m useless and maybe I am I don’t know anymore. I’m exhausted all the time and always watching him and then feel guilty as the older boys need my attention too

Today at soft play he was laughing and climbing like any other child and then another boy ran past him and he just launched himself at him.

Afterwards he cried and cuddled into me whilst I was carrying him out and he kept asking if I was cross and I said yes I was.

I just sat there thinking is this it now? Do I just stop taking him places because it isn’t fair on other children? But then it’s not fair on his brothers to not go anywhere as it’s nearly the summer holidays and how does he ever learn?

Maybe grief has affected him more than I realised because he was young so he didn’t really understand compared to my older boys. Maybe I’ve made mistakes or been too soft or maybe I’ve been too strict because I’m worried about his behaviour

I just feel completely stuck

And to add to that, try and get some support for yourself too, you have a lot on your plate.

It's the grief. You need a good child psychologist to deal with this. The poor boy doesn't know what to do with his emotions. He's grieving and angry and confused.

Interestingly my daughter seems to be the target for a girl at school who is angry. She lost her dad. I suspect she needs counselling.

You wouldn't understand that a child with S__EN might not be able to help it?

If you could get him into a school nursery that would be better. He probably can only do mornings or something like that like my four year old who is likely autistic.

@donyak it's unusual to be excluded from a nursery setting. That in itself indicates that your DS has significant needs. EHCPs are only suggested as a last resort in nursery age children, for two reasons. Firstly, there is a much more generous inclusion scheme for pre-school children (DD1 was given full 1:1 support after just one assessment). Secondly, preschools don't know much about EHCPs and they can just ask children to leave.

Do look at the IPSEA site and apply for a needs assessment.

DLA is not diagnosis based. Ask for a form, look at the questions and think back to how your other children were, or how other children his age are, and you'll probably realise how much more you do for DS.

You say sensory issues aren't involved. I'd be surprised. The sensory system is complex and for every sense there is a range of over sensitivity and a range of under sensitivity.

Like @Lougle, I too would be surprised if sensory issues are not at least part of the picture. There is a lot more to sensory processing than the stereotypical view. I have a DS1 with complex needs. One of his diagnoses is PTSD in part due to the death of DD1. There is evidence to suggest trauma can have an effect on sensory processing. It is certainly the case in DS1 and is something I have discussed at length over the years with psychiatrists, psychologists, specialist nurses and OTs.

Be careful with SENDIASS. Some are good but too many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies.

You might benefit from some family therapy oo. What about your other boys and their grief? Your grief?

There is a strange phenomenon where in families one member can do all the acting out for everyone. If you remove that person from the family, someone else starts doing it instead.

This is why they often look at the whole family and not just the acting out member.

It's two separate issues. The father is aware that his son is having emotional problems. Taking him to a loud place full of little ones running around is obviously very stimulating and he should have gone somewhere quieter. The mother of the child he attacked wasn't aware of the problem so of course she'd have been annoyed, just like I would be.

I just wondered how you're getting on and whether you've been able to find anything of any use to you here, @donyak
And to repeat that you mustn't let other people saying what you "should have done" get to you. That's pointless and only serves to make you feel bad when it's a complex situation where there isn't necessarily a simple "right" thing to do. Wanting to take him to soft play was perfectly reasonable. If it's too overstimulating for him for now, that's something to take into account - but don't feel bad for having tried it.

there used to be an organisation called Gingerbread. They supported single parents for many issues. Is it worth checking this out. Another reason why the old SureStart centres should not have been abolished. They were like a one stop shop for these issues. I hope you all get the support you need.

If you were able to go back to work full-time what wage bracket would you be in?

If higher than minimum or if able to get childcare vouchers or similar then I suggest speaking to a few nannies and using an agenxy to access childcare voucher money to save a few quid on the outgoing cost.

This would help in so many areas of life.

I was one for a number of years and helped out when a parent of a previous work family took ill as they were from abroad and didn’t have family.

Not all families who have a nanny are very well off - for some they have similar issues to yourself such as no nusery places available.

You could start by speaking to previous nursery and you older boys school nursery to see if they know of any in the area.

It could really give you some brain space back as well as one to one care for youngest which would be a very good investment.

All the best!

No experience here to offer with this, but couldn't not post to say hang in there- your doing your best and most importantly you love and care for your children. One day they will be very proud of what your doing for them.

OP couldn't read and run, even though I'm not sure I have anything new to say. Specialised help with bereavement for his age group seems a very good idea. Also second the suggestion that you try to get help for yourself.

Clearly, this isn't just about the mother-shaped hole in your youngest's life. It is clear that the death of your kids' mother changed the whole architecture of the family; it's not just that the mother is gone, it's affected what you can do with your life and what you can all do together. Even if it's a couple of years ago, you're probably all still shell-shocked at some level. Hopefully someone from one of the relevant agencies can help you review the whole situation.

Hats off to you for managing to stay calm and sympathy for getting the hairy eyeball on top of everything else. One of my kids was 'difficult' for a while (for v. different reasons - autism....) so I've been there. I'm not surprised you're exhausted!

Hi so sorry about your wife I hope your ok I think maybe grief counselling might be worth a shot at this point maybe looking at someone that specialises for younger children this could potentially be grief but manifesting as anger he’s too young to really understand what’s happened and the change after your wife died I think it’s worth exploring that avenue especially whilst your waiting for these assessments that could take years as a parent with 2 kids with autism I know how hard it can be avoiding going places as I don’t know how mine will react or how over stimulating it can be but I think while you wait for all these appointments see if you can find some kind of grief specialist …… please don’t avoid going out not just because it’s not fair for the kids but for you too you need to be able to go out and connect too . The whole family dynamic has changed since your loss . You will get shitty comments don’t listen whatever is happening to your little one doesn’t mean you are a bad parent or doing something wrong your doing the best you can under difficult circumstances with limited support that fact you’ve reached out for help is a good thing and a step in the right direction there are no perfect parents . I really hope you get the right support and some answers for your little one ❤️

I’m so sorry op, this sounds like a very difficult and stressful situation, and I’m very sorry for your loss. You do sound exhausted - and you also sound like a very good parent.

The circumstances aren’t exactly the same but when my ds1 was a similar age to your ds, he behaved similarly. He too was very big for his age (his dad was 6’ 6” and ds1 takes after him). I remember taking him to look round a nursery, and one of the staff said to another one “you’d never think he was only 2 would you!”

He had a habit of going up to other dc, hugging them, then leaning on them until they fell over, with him on top of them! It sounds funny now but I was incredibly stressed about it. One particular week, 2 women at separate places had a go at me. I went home crying, told dh I was never taking him out (ds1 not dh!) again, rang the health visitor etc.

Anyway - he’s 32 now and a teacher, and I’d completely forgotten all this until I read your post! The point I’m trying clumsily to make is that it won’t always be like this. I’m sure there will be challenges along the way but you sound like the sort of person who will investigate every avenue available, provide all the support you can to your ds, and it sounds like your ds (and his brothers) is in safe and loving hands.

I think your son needs a child psychologist. One who specialises in grief. He may see other children with their mums and just see red and be so angry he doesn’t have his the poor boy. He sounds like he realised afterwards it was the wrong thing to do, he’s just lashing out in the moment. And please take care of yourself, you can’t take care of them if you’re exhausted yourself.

I agree with previous posters about seeking help from places like your HV, early help, portage, your councils local offer page, trauma / grief agencies or charities. Depending on where you live there may be a charity called HomeStart in your area (they are uk wide but not in all counties). They help families in times of need (whatever the need may be) where there are children under 5. Your HV can refer you. Trained volunteers come to the family home once a week to help support you where needed. It really is a lifeline for many families. Take care. You’re not alone, keep seeking help. Parenting is hard.

Some great advice on this thread and I have no expertise in this area, but simply wanted to say that you sound like a really great dad and that you are doing an amazing job in very difficult circumstances.

Have a look to see if your local authority has an early assessment unit type nursery setting, these can be a game changer. I’m in Solihull so ours is Pebbles at Merstone school if you want to have a google to see if you have anything near you!

Refer yourself to portage. You can also apply for DLA using the fact nursery cant keep him and others safe should be enough evidence. X

I haven’t got any advice (I’m a much older mum so out of touch h s bit ) but my god you sound like a great great dad , I wish you and your children all the very best and good luck getting some support

OP the post above. Attachment disorder presents like neurodivergence. Get professional support and look after yourself too. Sending support and prayers.

OP it sounds really hard.

I think that in general mumsnetters seem to have very docile toddlers. I also don’t see huge correlation between behaviour very young and older amongst my kids’ peers.

Not that this means your son isn’t grieving or doesn’t have additional needs necessarily but he is 3.

I also am also going to go against the grain and think the mum was an arse tbh. If you were straight on it and apologetic, toddlers are tricky and do unexpected things. My daughter when she was about 5 was attacked by another child whose parent tried to blame it on her - now that is out of order.

I’d add that nurseries can be odd too one, you need to find the right one.