Neighbours angry at DS for snapping back and daughter’s homophobia - hypocrisy??

[TheNoisyDeer]

DS, 13, came out in Year 6 at the age of 10 and he has struggled with making friends ever since. His boy friends always used to make him the butt of the joke so he stopped being friends with them. He has a couple of female friends now but he still feels like he can’t be himself around them because they give him the side eye when they talk about boys and he talks about boys too. Due to this he feels on the defence when his sexuality is spoken about.

I invited our neighbours over earlier this evening for chat and drinks in the sunshine and the younger girl, 8, overheard her sister (the older daughter), 11, talking to DS about their crushes. She laughed at him, made a few comments about it being weird and called him a “gay boy”. I don’t know whether she’d picked it up from school or somewhere, but DS was clearly upset. He snapped and called her “a stupid bitch” and to “f off”.

There was immediate anger from her parents because she’s only 8 and they said there was no excuse for speaking to a young girl like that and demanded I tell him off. The older daughter also took her side and shouted at him to not talk to her sister like that. He looked startled, humiliated and ran inside.

I went inside and spoke to him about the language he used and said it wasn’t acceptable, especially to a girl that young, but I also told him I understood why he was hurt and that nobody should mock someone’s sexuality. DS said he didn’t care how old she was because she’d been horrible to him first and then refused to go back outside and apologise. I explained this to my neighbours and the mum said she wanted to leave and won’t put up with her daughters being spoken to in that manner and they left.

Ideally I would have expected the children to apologise to each other, preferably her first as she started it and then moved on but I was shocked by their reaction to just leave. We’ve been good friends for years and now I feel hurt by their lack of accountability for the homophobia and hypocrisy. I wouldn’t like the friendship to end but I won’t be bowing down to them.

AIBU for thinking both children were in the wrong but both the daughter and parents are more so?

It's like they can't see they are the ones sexualising kids by thinking talking about crushes is sexual

I'm sorry to tell you this but being gay is literally about your sexual preference and not much else. Gay people are exactly like straight people with the only difference being they are sexually attracted to the same sex.

No one is treating her like an adult

She said something homophobic and she is old enough to know laughing and calling people weird is hurtful even if she can't fully comprehend homophobia

Actually no, it's not just sexual. It's about romantic interest as well. Or do you think relationships are only sexual???

Romantic as in what? Are you telling me romance and sex are not connected? When you feel attracted to someone, what does it mean to you?

Edited: On the contrary, I never have sex with someone I'm not romantically attracted to. Also, I would not be interested in someone if I did not feel at least some sexual attraction.

Yes, I understand that they're attracted to the same sex.
Why are you thinking it's all about sex between 11 -13 years old though?!
That's the weird bit. You realise at that age you can have innocent crushes that don't involve thinking about sex, right?!
It's perfectly normal to start to know whether you're attracted to boys or girls at that age.

To be honest, you are probably right. Though sex between young teens in not unheard of... Thinking back to my first "love" (though I was 15 I think) I would have been terrified if my "crush" made a move )))

I just look at my own 13 year old and he has zero interest in anything romance or crush related. But I get that kids mature at different speed.

Asexuals and aromantics exist. Sex and romance are related but they are also different

Just because you need romance to be sexually attracted does not mean everyone does. That's why one night stands, FWB etc exist

I get that OP's son is going through tough times, he is still very young and is struggling with people accepting his sexuality; however, none of this excuses his treatment of a very small girl who probably also has homophobic parents.

You asked me, I answered. I only can speak for myself.

I dont get asexual or aromantic, to me its simply "friendship" - and I can be friends with either sex. I would be happy to be in a "relationship" with a woman if I did not have to have sex with her as I would not be able to do that. Does it make me gay?

Same, I knew I fancied boys at 13, but I'd have been far too shy and run a mile if any had approached me 😂

This post seems harsh to me.

Coming out at 10,- not odd to have crushes at 10. Coming out is different- for older teens .

telling everyone about his crushes (including young children)

• if he has crushes, why shouldn't he talk to friends about them? 8yo is fairly close in age to 10, it's not like he' talking to a 2yo. And crushes are very innocent at this age.

then huge outbursts when he gets a reaction he doesn't like followed along by a mother who thinks people should be apologising to him and never discriminating against him.

• he shouldn't be discriminated against, and the gurl was wrong to tease. But he was more wrong to swear like that.

Unfortunately this is the real world and he'll always get called names, especially if he's making a point of going on about it.- always get called names? Do you think homophobia is still that prevalent?

And talking about crushes to friends isn't 'going on', no one should get bullied for that.

DS was totally out of order though. That kind of language at 11 is worrying.

The DS was 13

I asked what you define a relationship as, yes, and then I explained why that isn't the same for everyone

But now you're prejudices are on show again by dismissing asexuals and aromantics and completely missing the point. Asexuals can be romantically attracted but feel no sexual attraction, aromantics can feel sexual attraction but not romantic attraction. Both are aware their friendship relationships are not the same as their sexual or romantic relationships

far he is talking about sex and how he views girls.

• why is a 10yo taking about crushes sexual?

How he views girls- how do you mean?

I do think the 'bitch' comment was really worrying. 8yo was wrong but that was out of order.

Oh sorry, that changes my views. It is odd to talk about crushes to an 8yo when you're 13.

Except he was talking to an 11 year old and the 8 year old was eavesdropping

There's nothing wrong with talking about crushes but 13yos etc are at a different developmental stage, so I agree that is worrying.

in addition some people consider swearing a lot worse than any level of homophobia or other issues.

• that seems very wrong to me. Swearing per se is definitely less bad than discrimination based on sex, race etc

But the abusiveness of the swearing in this context 'fuck off' and 'bitch' is very disturbing. And to an 8yo..

She shouldn't have called him weird & wasn't just stating a fact but teasing him about being a gay boy.

I agree DS was a twat though!

You're being absurd. When I was in primary school, kids talked about their crushes from a very young age (I'd guess around 7 - likely well before they even had any real understanding of what sex was, and certainly no interest in it). It was certainly very common come secondary school.

It's not appropriate to conflate that, which is normal childhood behavioir, to talking about sex.

The abusive language very bad.

Otoh it's unfair to assume he's always talking about crushes because he was in this case. Many kids this age have innocent crushes and chat about them to friends. Nothing wrong with that.

You need to stop assuming things about people and stop putting labels on them. It would give your arguments much more weight. Getting personal just makes you look childish.

I explained I dont understand aromantics or asexual. Each to their own, I guess, but its probably not a common thing or not something one would encounter as often, for example, as gay people (who you think I hate and who I deal with on the daily basis and who would be surprised at me being described as a homophobe)

Yes, I mean this thread is one of many with examples of this.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/5547656-12-year-olds-in-a-relationship

Maybe. What do I know? I only have one kid and I went to school in a communist country good 40 years ago - there was definitely no talk about crushes or gays or anything of that sort...