Neighbours angry at DS for snapping back and daughter’s homophobia - hypocrisy??

[TheNoisyDeer]

DS, 13, came out in Year 6 at the age of 10 and he has struggled with making friends ever since. His boy friends always used to make him the butt of the joke so he stopped being friends with them. He has a couple of female friends now but he still feels like he can’t be himself around them because they give him the side eye when they talk about boys and he talks about boys too. Due to this he feels on the defence when his sexuality is spoken about.

I invited our neighbours over earlier this evening for chat and drinks in the sunshine and the younger girl, 8, overheard her sister (the older daughter), 11, talking to DS about their crushes. She laughed at him, made a few comments about it being weird and called him a “gay boy”. I don’t know whether she’d picked it up from school or somewhere, but DS was clearly upset. He snapped and called her “a stupid bitch” and to “f off”.

There was immediate anger from her parents because she’s only 8 and they said there was no excuse for speaking to a young girl like that and demanded I tell him off. The older daughter also took her side and shouted at him to not talk to her sister like that. He looked startled, humiliated and ran inside.

I went inside and spoke to him about the language he used and said it wasn’t acceptable, especially to a girl that young, but I also told him I understood why he was hurt and that nobody should mock someone’s sexuality. DS said he didn’t care how old she was because she’d been horrible to him first and then refused to go back outside and apologise. I explained this to my neighbours and the mum said she wanted to leave and won’t put up with her daughters being spoken to in that manner and they left.

Ideally I would have expected the children to apologise to each other, preferably her first as she started it and then moved on but I was shocked by their reaction to just leave. We’ve been good friends for years and now I feel hurt by their lack of accountability for the homophobia and hypocrisy. I wouldn’t like the friendship to end but I won’t be bowing down to them.

AIBU for thinking both children were in the wrong but both the daughter and parents are more so?

If you display prejudices then I'm going to call them out. You just don't like hearing it

Oh, but sorry, you can't be homophobic because "you have gay friends" 🤣🤣🤣

I explained asexual and aromantic, you conflating it to essentially "being confused by friendships" is offensive. As is the way you're dismissing them.

Everything is offensive to you. You probably shout at your own shadow for behaving offensively.

I do have one gay friend (so funny), and I work with a lot of people who I know are gay. But it makes zero difference as I have no interest who they have relationships with, and they dont shout "homophobe" every time I forget to put milk in their coffee. If I ever judge them its on their professional ability and their qualities as a person, not on anything else.

I have zero issues with asexual people. I just never met one, ever.

He wasn't talking about crushes to an 8 year old though.
The 8 year old overheard the conversation.

40 years ago nobody talked about being gay as there was such a stigma to it!
You wouldn't dare come out as fancying the same sex to your mates.
It was literally illegal to mention being gay to kids as well due to section 28 law. It was only ever used as an insult.
Seems to be that some attitudes are still stuck there. It's not a big thing anymore. Or shouldn't be.

You tell me not to make personal comments because it "demeans the argument" and then make increasing more exaggerated personal comments about me.

Claiming you can't be X because you associate with people in the category X is against isn't ever an acceptable defence. And you're making more hyperbolic statements. Forgetting to put milk in their tea is not the same as making homophobic comments and assumptions about people and you know that full well. You're trying to discredit me with completely ridiculous comparisons and it's blindingly obvious to everyone

Your comments disregarded asexuals and aromantics (notice you missed them out). They are still a misunderstood and maligned section of society who are much less open about their sexuality because of assumptions like yours (that they just mean friendships). You may well know someone who is asexual or aromantic but they aren't "out"

I do think your DS language was wrong and you need to think about getting him some help working on his self-esteem and some outlets to make new friends.

The attitudes here are telling though- at 13 he is apparently old enough to display an adult level of resilience and emotional maturity despite having been bullied, deserves to be alone, and as someone pointed out is above the age of criminal responsibility.

However at the same age, he shouldn't know his sexuality, shouldn't have any crushes and shouldn't ever talk about who he fancies. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

I think it’s a shame Turkey cancelled on them as had sailed there before without issue but it’s their right to decline anyone they choose. I think Egypt was a bonkers substitution though. We’ve been denied entry into one country due to homophobia let’s go to another that has a worse reputation.

Sorry, but what are you actually on about?!
How are you getting all that from the OP?
Or this thread in general, in fact?!
Nobody's pushing any "gay agenda.' It's literally 11 and 13 year olds saying who they fancy 😕

You are right specifically but equally you have not read the whole thread which has moved to focus on issues that underlie the original post.

Yes, I have read the whole thread. Still not clear what bit you're referring to, then.

Well, with respect, if you have read the thread, and given the number of times you have posted yourself on it already, then I think you should be able to work it out.

Ffs the CHILD made the declaration he was gay. He came to that decision himself

"Pushing a gay agenda"? Wtf even is that? Straight is pushed in every child's face from a very young age....

Saying you're gay at 10 doesn't lock you into holding that identity for life

Maybe he wants to be a train driver or a fireman too at age 10? 🤭

It's some homophobic bullshit is what it is

No one questions a child showing straight attraction at that age (and no kid comes out as straight because that's the assumed state) but a child says that are gay and suddenly it's child abuse and an agenda?

Ffs just when you couldn't get more homophobic...

What happened? What the fuck happen for a 10-year old to think of sex, never mind coming out as gay? Are his parents mad? Are you all mad? Children should be children and not think of all that shit at all - don't they play or read or do sport? Or study? What the fuck happened to them and their parents, not putting a stop to this super-early sexualisation of children??????

Being gay isn't the over sexualision of children
H2H

Thinking and talking about sex at 10 is!!!! FFS

Where did it say he was thinking and talking about sex???

He was talking about crushes, not sex, as per OP's post? Crushes aren't sexual at that age.

I agree children can't know who they will like as an adult at that age, so shouldn't come out, but they can have crushes.

See this thread, for one, for examples:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/5547656-12-year-olds-in-a-relationship

I agree no child should be told they are 'straight' or 'gay' at that age as it's not the right stage. But children that age can have crushes, that's not abuse.

Gay conversion therapy for kids is banned, and rightly so. Why put it in quotes? Such things have existed, especially in the US

The issue is banning so-called trans conversion, which is ridiculous as no one us born in the wrong body. There is no such thing as trans conversion therapy and it should not be banned.

Great that your DS had the confidence and security to come out to you in yr 6.

An 8 year old being exposed to conversations about your DSs sexuality is maybe a bit of over exposure, that you suggest may have come from things overheard at school.

I had a conversation with my DGD recently, she doesn’t swear, she says by personal choice but she says the majority of children in her year, 10, do. So @TheNoisyDeer, your DS speaking to an 8 year old in this way might be what he considers appropriate.

Both children need speaking to about how they address others. You can only speak for and to your DS. You can be upset about the way the situation was handled by the parents of the 8 year old. You can do nothing about that, but you can look after and guide your DS and bring him up to understand that verbal abuse is never justified.

The 8 year old needs protecting from being spoken to the way your DS spoke to her, she is too young. I have a DGS, 7 soon to be 8. He doesn’t know about homosexuality yet, but he would understand if someone said “bad words” to him and the level of anger your DS expressed.

If you witnessed an adult speaking to a child like your DS did, you would be horrified.

And the homophobia keeps on coming. Parents don’t push being gay on to their children no more than parents of straight children push being straight. Some children know very early on at the age when children start to have crushes and it’s absolutely crucial that parents are supportive. Demonising, persuading against or speaking about being gay in any negative way just leads to future MH problems. There is nothing wrong with being gay, nothing. It’s neither here nor there if a child thinks they’re gsy. People are born gay or straight. Saying a parent who supports their child when they say they think they’re gay are abusers is homophobia pure and simple.