AIBU to think a 9-year-old boy can use the ladies with mum?

[aliceyyyy2654]

An AIBU on behalf of a friend who told me this story today.

my friend was out with her two children (DS aged 9 and DD aged 6). She took both with her into the ladies loo in her shopping centre. When she was done and the kids were washing their hands an old lady came up and told her it was unacceptable for a ‘young man’ to be in the women’s toilets as he was not a girl. This kid is 9!!

She was rather upset and embarrassed and hurried out and her son asked her why she was being shouted at.

When she told me this story I told her to ignore it and to continue taking her young children into the women’s with her when their dad isn’t present.

AIBU to think that a 9 year old boy should be able to go into the women’s with his mum as it is much safer than going into the men’s alone?

This whole thread is about toilets, isn't it? That's literally what the op is about!

You asked why I assumed unisex cubicles are different from single sex cubicles, I was sharing that info.

I guess there are some people on this thread who will never respect the rights of girls to private spaces. How can we expect boys to be respectful if they are being taught that these boundaries don't matter or don't apply to them?

Single sex spaces aren't necessarily for protection against men (or women)

It's for the privacy and dignity of each sex - to perform ablutions, which are deemed to be a private act in an area which focuses on their needs.

Having older children of the wrong sex in either bathroom interferes with this privacy and dignity.

I'm fairly certain men would object to an 10 year old girl in their toilet - it would cause them deep discomfort.

The same is true for women with boys, who they cannot ascertain the age of.

In both cases I would say the greatest discomfort would be felt by the child who knew they were in the wrong place, because they have had several years at school using single sex toilets.

Sorry it was me muddying the waters about changing rooms.

I was just wondering what those who don't allow their sons into male toilets do about changing rooms - or letting their children out on their own.

It is. But I was responding to someone asking about changing cubicles!! 😂

I mean technically they’re exposing themselves but they have to if they need to per in the urinal! A 9 year old can go into a cubicle if he wants to.

I'm old and out of date with modern technological advances. Do sanitary products have audible alarms now to indicate when to change them ??
Most impressive.

😂😂😂

Favourite reply so far 👏

Obviously too old to remember what is it like being a 10-11 year old girl whose body is changing and is full of hormones 🤔

@Bushmillsbabe I have a 4 year old boy so I am still happily taking him to the ladies with me so I am not the relevant demographic to answer your questions. I will absolutely be taking him at 9 years though and after that I'll use my discretion and common sense. The reason why nobody has answered your questions is because they are far too time consuming to engage with and the answers would be far too exhaustive to explain adequately over mumsnet and nobody has to justify how they keep their children safe. What I don't understand is how are you not willing to protect prepubertal boys from these very small percentage of aggressive men? And why do these same boys cause you to experience a loss of dignity behind a locked toilet cubicle? I would be very happy to share a women's toilet with a 9 year old and his mum if the alternative exposes him to the risk of assault. I challenge any woman, in real life, to willingingly send him into the men's where there is undoubtedly a risk because she feels threatened? Are prepubertal boys at high risk of being sexual predators? If there's a unisex toilet available- fantastic. But if there isn't, a mother has the right to safeguard her child. The poor mother who posted here about her 11 year old getting raped whilst she waited outside - had the same right but didn't exercise it for whatever reason. A reason I've no doubt that haunts her everyday. It's all about risk mitigation. Let's protect children from men?

I think 9 is a bit old. 8 has always come up on here as the age to switch over and that makes sense to me for most children. My 8 year old now goes to the men's.

A mother's right to safeguard her child does not trump every woman and girl's right to privacy and dignity.

Your son must learn to use appropriate sex facilities at an appropriate age.

You say you will still be taking him at 11- at secondary school age?

This is utterly ridiculous and would be humiliating to him.

It is your responsibility to prepare him for independence - in this and other situations.

Any risks of using a men's toilet are miniscule compared to the other risks he will face in life - especially at secondary school age when he will need to get himself to and from school himself, entering multiple public spaces.

Similar aged children here and I’d take mine in with me too.

Absolutely spot on response. Dear god, we are talking about safeguarding children, all children. Im sick to my stomach at some of these responses.

When did we all get so overprotective.

I agree with the previous comment of Jonothan Haidt which pointed out we overestimate the risks of the physical world whilst massively underestimating the risks of the digital world.

I wonder if all the people on here are ensuring their son's safety online with the vigor that they show around toilets. I suspect not.

@Missrosie123 You're sick to the stomach at the thought of women having a right to privacy and dignity?

It’s so upsetting that so many women hate men so much that they are willing and happy to risk the safety of little children just because they are boys. So disgusting and honestly id be wary of leaving my children with any of these people if I knew their distain towards young boys.

i have shown my friend this thread and thankfully she is not going to be swayed and put her son at risk.

The answer to why girls are uncomfortable is simple:Boys behaviour from a young age. Pointing out they can see girls knickers on the climbing frame at 5. At seven saying the girls cant play football on the playground. At 8/9 many are playing high age rated computer games and watching films (for example Squid Games in Yr4).... then parroting what theyve heard. In Yr5 telling the girls they are lying when they mention playing certain sports.... and the horror if they are better than them.

Not every boy. But all examples of what happened at various points to my DDs in Primary School.
Plus in Yr7... a boy following DD everywhere because he liked her. The school had to move his class.

No one hates boys.

Unless those boys have been taught by their parents that their needs are paramount and should be above any other persons. Those boys are pretty unpleasant to be around and usually grow into difficult men.

Their needs MUST be balanced against the needs of others.

In this case the needs of women and girls need to be prioritised in the space set aside for them.

Boy's needs are not paramount here - they have their own spaces. They need to use them. Their parents need to tell them this.

Schools will tell them this. They understand this.

At the thought of young boys not been deemed worthy to protect from the men we want to keep out of our toilets to protect women. At the contempt shown to the real life experiences shared on this thread of horrible sexual assaults that have occurred with responses like been told to keep them at home. This is all about a risk assessment for how we protect our children. You are damn right I’m sick to
my stomach! A 9 year old old boy with his
mum is no threat to a woman or girl in toilets. Have you been through train stations, bus stations and shopping centres and seen some of the people hanging around the toilets who scare me as a woman. It’s ok though, I should send my young son in on his own and just hope for the best. Where is the empathy. I will protect a girl and a boy with everything in me. The children are ours to protect. Man or woman.

You do realise your son will have to live in this world, move in this space, manage risk and difficult situations?

This is about the appropriate age to do this - you cannot protect him forever.

He cannot go into the women's with you when he's 16- and the risk to him will still be there.

Your job as a parent is to help him understand and manage these risks, not teach him to force others to make him comfortable.

I'm not telling my son that some little princess's wants are more important than his safety. If the only space set aside for my 9 year old is with adult men, then he's using the women's toilets with me. I couldn't give a shit about about your over sensitive daughter worrying that he might hear her changing a tampon.

And again, it's not about 'keeping men out' of women's toilets.

Its about PRIVACY and DIGNITY for women in their own sexed spaces.

Somehow you hate and fear men, yet refuse to teach your son that women are allowed to have boundaries - are you not concerned about this messaging?

Do you think the pp whose son was raped at age 11 in the men's toilet while she waited outside wished she had been 'overprotective' then? I suspect yes. Is it overprotective to easily avoid a circumstance that risks your son getting assaulted? Your other point is laughable. What relevance does that have? We are talking about a specific set of circumstances here. And yes I'm willing to bet that these mothers would be doing exactly that. Given the fight against OTHER WOMEN they've had to endure to safeguard their children, you can bet your house they'll be doing their utmost to protect, advocate and educate their children in what is becoming an increasingly divisive and terrifying world. Thanks for your concern though.

How insulting - little princesses

You are forcing your son into a space he should not be.

Just acknowledge that for a bit.

The 'little princesses' are there because it is THEIR SPACE