AIBU to think a 9-year-old boy can use the ladies with mum?

[aliceyyyy2654]

An AIBU on behalf of a friend who told me this story today.

my friend was out with her two children (DS aged 9 and DD aged 6). She took both with her into the ladies loo in her shopping centre. When she was done and the kids were washing their hands an old lady came up and told her it was unacceptable for a ‘young man’ to be in the women’s toilets as he was not a girl. This kid is 9!!

She was rather upset and embarrassed and hurried out and her son asked her why she was being shouted at.

When she told me this story I told her to ignore it and to continue taking her young children into the women’s with her when their dad isn’t present.

AIBU to think that a 9 year old boy should be able to go into the women’s with his mum as it is much safer than going into the men’s alone?

And, I think it's clear from the responses on this thread, that the norm is very much that all dc should be in the correct sex toilet by age 9.

Girls are safeguarded by being allowed to toilet and get changed in single sex spaces.

You aren't listening to my account, or to the many other accounts on this thread, about how girls are uncomfortable with boys in their toilets, so I wonder if you've always paid attention to the impact on others when you've brought boys into female spaces?

after swimming I'm not going to drag my kids into town to find a costa, buy a drink to use a cubicle that looks very similar to the cubicles in the leisure centre!

all we encounter in a women’s toilet that is differnt is sinks!!

we will continue doing as we are for now until I feel he will be safer in the men’s.

What about risk mitigation? Why is that not relevant? I ensure my kids are as safe as they can be in the car. We have to use to the car. That's life. A risk we take everyday. In fact, leaving the house is a risk. Nobody needs to accept the risk of sending their vulnerable boy into the men's. As a pp said - her son was raped in the men's toilets as she stood outside. Don't you think she wishes her son wasn't one of those 3 that year? Just because the risk may be low, it is perfectly and easily avoidable, so why take it? Because women and girls are apparently so threatened by the presence of a prepubertal boy accompanied by their mum in a room full of locked cubicles? It's laughable.

That’s ok then! Only 3! Brilliant. FFS

But would he be horrified to ever be referred to as such, or just annoyed because he sees himself as a big boy?

I guess it doesn't help that parents often call their children 'big boys/girls' when they really aren't, to try to encourage them to leave behind the baby/toddler behaviours.

Even so, considering that people routinely refer to children aged 13 or over specifically as teen girls or boys, I don't see how somebody who is only 4 years younger than that would still be a little boy/girl - with 'big boys/girls' just somehow not referring to any age group.

We have explained what the situation is - from around 8 boys should be looking to use their same sex toilet facilities.

The hyperbolic nonsense about perceived risk to them has been debunked with statistics - it is a very low risk.

Most of the posters continuously going on and on about the risk to their supposed children seem absolutely set on getting people who should not be in women's toilets in there.

If you agree 9 year olds can go in, why not 10 or 11.
Why not dad with his daughter (instead of using the mens) or grandad with his disabled wife (use the disabled toilet)
why not a gender questioning boy of 14 - he's no danger after all
If he's okay, then why not a 17 year old who identifies as a woman?

It's just endless pushing of an agenda.

There needs to be a line on the exceptions to who can use the women's toilet.

In school it is 8, as it is in public leisure centres - which gives you a clear signal that you need to start thinking about it at this age, planning for it with your sons.
Maybe 9/10 occasionally in some circumstances, but ideally not.

Wailing about 'what about the boys' (and men) whilst completing ignoring the people whose facility it is (as always) just tells us what you're about.

Where has this figure of '3' come from? Is that three in the whole of the UK? England? London?

That isn't a solution when a mum is taking her son somewhere without a unisex or family toilet though, hence the point of the thread. Are you basically saying if that's not available us and our sons aren't able to use public toilets.whilw they're children and too young to go alone into the men's?

perceived risk to them has been debunked with statistics - it is a very low risk.

Can you point us to the source of these statistics please?

As it deemed ok for men pretending to be a woman to use the ladies these days - I definitely think its is more than acceptable and safer for children aged 9 to use a toilet their parent can take them too - than leave them at risk on their own in a mens toilet - eapecially with all the horror stories going on at the moment

Everyone's read those accounts but it doesn't make sense given children are going to feel the same way before 8 too, or how it's suddenly fine the day before a boy turns 8 and everyone can magically see the difference the next day. Regardless of if a toilet is single sex or unisex or has people bringing in their children the key aspect is behaviour. No one, adult or child, should be looking,lurking or doing anything to make anyone uncomfortable and that goes for girl children too. The girls will have to be in the loos with kids aged 7 years and 11 months anyway by your example when they should also be supervised and kept private away from other toilet users?

That's up to you. I haven't got a son but if I did, I'd take him to the toilet with me until I was comfortable otherwise. Not really much you can do about it.

Why does the bar have to be "horrified" 😂

You say “we have explained” - like you are the new toilet government?

“Supposed children” - do you think we’re making our kids up now??

”pushing an agenda” - what agenda is this please??

Another point is that the social standard for a male of school age and over urinating in a public/communal toilet is to use a urinal.

If all of these 9, 10 & 11 year old boys are still going into the ladies' toilets - where of course there are no urinals - they'll never learn the basic social skills of using one. If they've only ever been taught to go into a cubicle and shut the door behind them, they'll very likely lack confidence in ever getting used to using one... and considering that male public toilets often only have one or two cubicles, that could see them queuing and waiting wholly unnecessarily - as well as holding up somebody who needs a poo or (genuinely) little girls/little boys still learning toilet confidence who are in there with their dads.

It's official!

Well 8 is at the top end of what's ok, I think most dc are using the right toilets earlier than that, but it's a fair cut off point.

I would say dc are entitled to privacy from the age they are aware of the differences in their bodies and can ask for privacy.

If a parent isn't happy for their older boy to use the correct toilet for their sex, they need to find an alternative that isn't bringing them into a single sex space they don't belong.

People would rather a little innocent 9 year old boy be frightened and uneasy and at possible risk in a men’s toilet alone than allow him to stand at the sink next to them and wash their hands supervised by their mum?

Really?

Yes. People are MAD.

Some people have not met enough 9 year old boys

I dont know anyone who would send there 8 year old son into a men’s toilet on there own, I didn’t with my son. Nobody ever said anything but even if they had I wouldn’t have gone along with it.

There have been huge numbers of women on this thread who have said their sons went into men's toilets on their own.

Your son will have gone into a boys toilet at school on his own too - without mummy to wipe his bum.

Oh don’t be ridiculous.

of course they’ll learn at home, school and with dad in the men’s.

the majority of these instances where we have to take them into women’s is on the occasion when we don’t have a male partner with us who can safely take them to men.

one trip to the women’s once in a while doesn’t stop this development I promise you.

you will find though that lots of boys and men prefer to sit. More than you’d think.

No, most people think that innocent little 9 year old are unlikely to be frightened and uneasy at the thought of using the men's toilet (most manage it perfectly well) and that the risk is very low if a few basic measures are put in place.

Most people think that this need to bring older boys into the ladies is far more about the anxieties of the mother than the child (although yes, if your mother is constantly telling you how dangerous the men's toilet is then yes you're likely to become nervous).

Do any of you allow your 9 year olds out on their own?

Do they not play football in the park with friends?

Do they not go to the shops for an ice cream on their own?

Do you hold their hands still when crossing the road?

Adult anxieties over perceived risks are harming children and this is just an indication of it.