AIBU to think a 9-year-old boy can use the ladies with mum?

[aliceyyyy2654]

An AIBU on behalf of a friend who told me this story today.

my friend was out with her two children (DS aged 9 and DD aged 6). She took both with her into the ladies loo in her shopping centre. When she was done and the kids were washing their hands an old lady came up and told her it was unacceptable for a ‘young man’ to be in the women’s toilets as he was not a girl. This kid is 9!!

She was rather upset and embarrassed and hurried out and her son asked her why she was being shouted at.

When she told me this story I told her to ignore it and to continue taking her young children into the women’s with her when their dad isn’t present.

AIBU to think that a 9 year old boy should be able to go into the women’s with his mum as it is much safer than going into the men’s alone?

@LilOleMe2 the 1960s are calling and want you back asap!

Well she was shouting according to the OP. It is also interesting how she decided the child was 9. I have one son who is short and he would probably have been identified as 8 when he was ten. I have another son who was over 6' at 12, people could easily have decided he was 9 or 10 when he was seven. Would he be expected to carry his birth certificate with him?

Obviously no, a 16 year old is a totally different story. I agree making a cut off is extremely difficult, and I am already getting kick/back from my 10 year old. I think I’m probably on the limit now to be honest. Maybe up to 11 assuming no additional needs? To be honest it does give me a 3-4 year problem because I will honestly worry every time in like airports or shopping centres because of the number of people and anonymity. As others have said I’ll look for other solutions that avoid the issue - but as someone who also has a disabled family member who legitimately needs the disabled toilet, I would not take him in there.

You do realise there won't be random unknown men in the boys toilets at school? Not the same as public toilets.

I know on this specific post it's with a parent, but that isn't always the case.

We were at legoland recently, 3 boys walked into ladies toilets together, walked straight past the queue, i presumed they were maybe looking for their mum. At a guess I would have said they were around 10, 7 and 4. But they all went to toilet, no mum seemed to be with them, and they then left without a mum with them.

They were a group and could have easily gone into the mens which had no queue, but clearly they had been told not only that they were they 'entitled' to go into the ladies toilets, but they were also entitled to not queue.

I know the statistics. Do you? It’s roughy 3 a year in the metropolitan police area which is a tiny number…..and yes it’s 3 too many but statistically it’s negligible and therefore from a risk perspective, not an issue.

Do you think it might be low because lots of mothers take their nine year olds into the women's toilets with them?

I don't suppose it feels negligible to the three boys.

Yes it's low because not many mothers let their children use the men's toilets alone.

No one is saying mums shouldn't want to safeguard their sons. Only that that safeguarding boys shouldn't come at the expense of girls.

And that as several posters have said, it's not possible to protect our children against everything forever, and that it's much better to teach strategies - go in in pairs where possible, have an open phone line to another person if feel unsafe,carry a panic alarm, if doing a long journey plan safe toilet stops, self defence skills, risk assessment

What we see as protection is actually often putting our children at greater risk, of not developing independence, of living in fear, of not being able to risk assess

I was assaulted by a drunk women in a ladies pub toilet. So do I now never go I to a women's toilet? No - I learnt self defence, I go with a friend where possible, if I am out with DH and feel unsafe I will call him via my Bluetooth headset whilst in toilets

I have an 8, nearly 9 year old son (as well as a daughter) and if he's out with me, he'll use the ladies loos with me. Wouldn't think twice about it, as think he's too young/vulnerable to go to men's loos by himself without a male relative! (I generally have to use the disabled anyway, due to disability, so less of an issue.)

Should a 4 year old boy be able to use the ladies toilets with his mum, even if a 4 year old girl doesnt want him in there? By your logic, the 4 year old boy should use the men's alone. It's nonsensical.

No because most don't.

For those who have said they still take their 9/10 year old boy into toilet

• at what age will you stop doing. this, and why?

• what steps are you proactively taking to support him with his safety as gets older
• based on fact that from 11, many children will be taking themselves to school on their own, which may involve going via bus stations, public toilets etc, what do you think will suddenly be different at 11, vs 10?
• do you give your son a choice? If they say they don't want to, do you insist they come into the women's?
• do you have conversations which affirm women's rights to a single sex space

Ok but that’s wrong and that isn’t the same.

But where do you think they got the idea from that boys could go into women's toilets? Most likely from going in with their mum

No one has said that. Most people have set the age at 7/8, or the start of year 3.

This is for developmental reasons, that children begin to really notice their differences by this age. Physical differences between genders start to show and many schools move from mixed sports to single gender in competitions at this age as an acknowledgement of physical composition differences in strength, height etc which start to emerge from 7.
And by this age the majority of children can understand to go in, go toilet, wipe flush, wash hands and return and wait in entrance area

That's not answering PPs question though, it's an example completely unrelated to the thread which is boy children being supervised by a parent. Not using the queue etc is surely something as a grown up you're capable of calling boys and girls out for. This story doesn't prove at all that they had been told they were entitled to enter any space or entitled not to queue. Why would you not just use your words?

Because, as stated, when they were walking past the queue which I was towards back of, I assumed they were coming in to find their mum as it didnt seem logical that they would walk past a queue in a ladies toilet for any other reason. When I noticed they had all walked into the toilets, I wasn't exactly going to leave the queue, go back on their doors and tell them to leave!

But again, a women is the one at fault for not calling males out on their poor behaviour, not the males for coming in in the first place, or the women who taught them it was ok to do

Well I am a medical professional and have had much experience with CAMHS...what's your point? Where is the evidence and guidance that shows young boys feel disempowered using the ladies with their mums? It has been well documented that men's toilets are a place of risk. There are also at least 3 or 4 personal references of the same on this very thread. Somebody with a "masters" should know better than to say an absolute statement such as 'there is no higher risk of in a men's toilet than anywhere else'. That is so unbelievably stupid. Id love to know your 'clinical specialist role'...are you on admin? Remember all that pushback years ago re women rejecting unisex toilets due to increased risk of misuse? Look it up. This is why we have women only spaces (prepubertal boys in the ladies toilets with their mothers do not threaten that space). The crime stats relating to sexual offences specifically in public toilets is available via FOI as it requires specific data mining. You are absolutely misinformed and out of date. Your credentials sound incredibly dubious given your ridiculous statements. And by dubious, I mean completely fabricated.

The person I replied to literally gave the reason that "her daughter wouldn't want a boy her age in the bathroom". It's a stupid argument. Your point is a different one.

Tough about the men "exposing" themselves. Any girl out with her dad is expected to go in the men's and cope with this too. It won't actually harm them even if it's uncomfortable.

Kind of ironic point you make since you have decided with no evidence a woman has told these boys to do that. If you genuinely believe even accompanied boy children are threat in the women's toilets then it's not unreasonable for you as an adult to query why they're in there or cutting a queue, which you should hopefully do it you saw an unaccompanied girl child bypassing the queue as well.

And what physical differences are going to be noticed behind locked toilet cubicles exactly? Unless you mean a 9 year old boy exposing his hands at the sinks? I am sure the boy won't be lying on the floor peeking into the next cubicle with his mum present?

What age from? Because if too young then essentially parents can only go out with their children if they're the same sex.

I would take my 9 year old son to the mens toilet door and stand outside now, telling him to shout if he needed anything.
So I do think 9 is too old for the ladies but at the same time I understand the worry. Thankfully dh is usually with us.