Tipping waiting staff..

[JacknDiane]

Ive just read an article about football fans visiting the US and being frustrated at how expensive the tipping culture is over there. Its because US waiting staff are paid so little, the tips are meant to boost their wages. But visitors are saying the staff should be properly paid and its on businesses to ensure staff are properly paid, not on the customer to be expected to make up the wages shortfall. I think football fans from around the world are feeling the pinch in the US as they are getting ripped off anyway.

BUT its made me think. We dont eat out much here in the UK, its frankly expensive and not always great. But whenever we do eat out, I notice a service charge is always added automatically to the bill. And frankly it makes the bill quite a bit higher. Id love a cocktail with my dinner or lunch but I very very rarely have one, as they can be £8-£9 each. So I have either water or a soft drink. But then the bill comes and the tip is often £8-£9. That's the cocktail I usually deny myself. And it sort of pisses me off. I earn 25p over minimum wage. Dh isn't on much more. And im guessing the hospitality staff are on similar to me. Im in retail and I give customers good service . But I dont get tips and of course I dont expect tips. Yet waiting staff here get minimum wage and we still tip them 10% of the bill. So they'll be earning a whole lot more than me. Yet I feel mean if I dont tip.

What's the answer? Please bare in mind my earnings and how infrequently we eat out. Its a treat, and drinks are usually water or coke to keep costs down. Having a coffee at the end and sharing a dessert is a treat too.
Then the bill comes and im expected to tip someone better paid than me. The tip is always on the bill, gone are the days the tip feels optional.
And I know this isn't the waiting staff's fault. I know they dont make the rules and i know the tips are pooled between all staff working.
But it just feels too much when our budget is stretched to the limit. I also know ive tipped and the staff/ meal frankly weren't all that great. But I feel pressure when its on the bill.

Am I the only low waged person to feel like this?

Damn right.

I'm not tipping everyone on minimum wage. I couldn't afford to for a start. That would be crazy!

Using that as justification for not tipping where it is customary makes you a cheapskate not an equality crusader

@carry Juggling 8-10 tables alone in one shift rarely happens.

I’ve done the job over many years and most of the time it’s easy money.

@topcat2026I’ve done the job for 40 years and it is very common to juggle that many tables in my experience.

DH and I are generous tippers for good service, I do not like an additional service though because we will decide if it’s decent service. Both of us worked as waiting staff when we were very young, I was still at school and he did it when a student. My parents ran a restaurant when I was very young. My Mother always gave tips even in a cheap little cafe if the service and food was very good.

Just because something is a custom doesn't make it right or desirable.

especially if it saves you money to say so

Hard disagree. I think people who only tip 'selective' people on minimum wage are clinging to old fashioned ideas and haven't really given a thought to all those other people on minimum wage that don't get tips on top of their wages. I prefer to live in a fairer society.

I used to leave a few ££ when ordering food at the counter in cafés, but I'm retired now so I'm poorer than them haha.

Maybe at your restaurant, I've done that most of time when I waitressed

10% is fair enough and worked in the past ime there but apparently in USA now the amount expected is 15-20% yet everything has become so much more expensive and pound is weak

In the UK I will give a tip directly to the server for great service

Elsewhere, I follow the culture of that country as it’s rude to visit somewhere and not to

Some countries it would be rude to tip, so I don’t (Japan, Singapore, South Korea, China)

I think the US need to be much clearer and direct though
People seem to get that prices there do not include tax, and that will be added

What they need to realise is that prices on US menus are literally just for the food. They DO NOT include the service, (taking order, delivering order, washing dishes, taking payment) and that WILL be added after - just like tax

I wish they just included it, but they don’t, so if you want to eat out in the US you either realise you add 30% to the bill for tax and service, or you can’t afford to eat there

This reminds me of when as a student nurse, a care support worker said that she never tips on the grounds that - "no-one ever gives me a tip and says "there you are love, you wiped me mum's arse a treat today"

30% is ridiculous and also the food is going to be marked up factoring in this to some extent?

yes it would put me off

You could always tip everyone on minimum wage who serves you if you want to live in a fairer society? No, thought not!

Im not suggesting everyone on close to minimum wage should get a tip. I just think im going to stop tipping altogether.
Its just a daft thing to do. And it annoys me when its automatically included in your restaurant bill now. Like its a given.
Imagine I had a customer in the shop i work in buying some new clothes and I gave them a bill with 10% automatically included as I served them and helped them choose their outfits!
Seems daft, doesn't it.
But its the norm now in hospitality and its crazy.

30% is including an average of 10% tax (UK includes 20% VAT - but no one cares as it’s hidden in the price!🙄) plus 20% for service and tip combined

Agree some can’t afford it, but then don’t go!

I think State tax was 6% last time I went and 10% tip in 2018

yes I don’t think I would rush back ,it’s all become too expensive

I don't know why you have a problem with me not tipping waiting staff. I can't afford to tip everyone on minimum wage so I don't tip anyone unless they have done something over and above what they are paid to do. So it is fair. I treat everyone the same, you can't say fairer than that.

Your supposed logic just amuses me. You are SO concerned about being fair as long as it saves you money

But my argument is what if you have a customer that doesn't care about customs, traditions, the passive aggressive waiter and restaurant manager - can a diner realistically eat, pay for the food and leave? Will the police be called for not leaving a tip? No , so why risk relying on customers to do the right thing and not just factor all this into the overall price?

I don't know why you have a problem with me not tipping waiting staff

TBH I fail to understand why anyone would care to the point of haranguing other posters over and over again, @WallaceinAnderland

Tip or don't tip - after all it's still voluntary. We all have our own personal choices, but the level of nastiness really doesn't seem to be necessary

Exactly. The establishments themselves say it's optional so if people want to tip big go ahead. Live and let live I say.

@carrythecan

hmm early years/caring - juggling the competing needs of patients/children that will be constantly changing.

Co-ordinating with external services, other health care or early years professionals.

Having to have a solid background knowledge of a huge number of conditions, legislation, child development, nutrition, safeguarding, medicines management, first aid.

Being responsible for the safety of human beings - having the possibility of ending up in court if you make a mistake that harms someone.

Long shifts on your feet all the time, lifting, carrying, Antisocial shifts all the time.

I just don't think hospitality is harder than this - it just doesn't have the same level of responsibility.

@user1471538275I’m not trying to get into a this job is worse that that dispute, my point was that hospitality involves a lot more than just ‘carrying plates’. I know that caring roles are extremely under valued and can be incredibly stressful, but so can hospitality ones.

Incidently, legislation in the UK means that hospitality workers also need to be trained in first aid, health and safety, food hygiene, allergies, licensing regulations etc. And yes, get it wrong and you will face the chance of being prosecuted. The job also involves a lot of heavy lifting, carrying, working in cramped, very hot and stressful situations.

Unless you’ve done either job for a significant length of time, it’s impossible to compare them. Also, it will be very dependent on the individual working environment and factors involved, so I don’t think you can say it’s easier.