Tipping waiting staff..

[JacknDiane]

Ive just read an article about football fans visiting the US and being frustrated at how expensive the tipping culture is over there. Its because US waiting staff are paid so little, the tips are meant to boost their wages. But visitors are saying the staff should be properly paid and its on businesses to ensure staff are properly paid, not on the customer to be expected to make up the wages shortfall. I think football fans from around the world are feeling the pinch in the US as they are getting ripped off anyway.

BUT its made me think. We dont eat out much here in the UK, its frankly expensive and not always great. But whenever we do eat out, I notice a service charge is always added automatically to the bill. And frankly it makes the bill quite a bit higher. Id love a cocktail with my dinner or lunch but I very very rarely have one, as they can be £8-£9 each. So I have either water or a soft drink. But then the bill comes and the tip is often £8-£9. That's the cocktail I usually deny myself. And it sort of pisses me off. I earn 25p over minimum wage. Dh isn't on much more. And im guessing the hospitality staff are on similar to me. Im in retail and I give customers good service . But I dont get tips and of course I dont expect tips. Yet waiting staff here get minimum wage and we still tip them 10% of the bill. So they'll be earning a whole lot more than me. Yet I feel mean if I dont tip.

What's the answer? Please bare in mind my earnings and how infrequently we eat out. Its a treat, and drinks are usually water or coke to keep costs down. Having a coffee at the end and sharing a dessert is a treat too.
Then the bill comes and im expected to tip someone better paid than me. The tip is always on the bill, gone are the days the tip feels optional.
And I know this isn't the waiting staff's fault. I know they dont make the rules and i know the tips are pooled between all staff working.
But it just feels too much when our budget is stretched to the limit. I also know ive tipped and the staff/ meal frankly weren't all that great. But I feel pressure when its on the bill.

Am I the only low waged person to feel like this?

It’s still an 8.5% increase!!!

You can refuse to pay the service charge. It’s not always guaranteed the waiting or kitchen staff will get it.

The restaurant is relying on you feel awkward at asking for it to be removed.

My Gen Z / Y relatives are much better at this than millennials. They ask for the service charge to be removed every time. They are also on minimum wage whilst working part time trying to fund studies.

I ask waiting staff if they get the service charge. If they say no, I ask for the service charge to be removed and leave a 10% cash tip

There is no legal requirement. It might be expected - but that doesn't mean you have to fulfil the expectation unless you plan to eat there again.

What's the point of that if they all do it? It's like telling people not to join a gym if they don't want to pay a joining fee, (although not all of them charge joining fess, and not all the time so that is slightly easier and most people don't join a new gym as often as they eat or drink out).

Poor business practices should not be supported.

Of course not but there is a difference from retail to waiters and waitresses.

I know the word but do you know why it is "optional"?

https://countertalk.co.uk/help-and-advice/what-the-hell-is-service-charge

Assuming you are in the UK, it is customary to tip the waiting staff in an eating establishment, but not in some other environments such as retail. If you have had a decent meal for two or more people then it is likely to have cost more than the waiter is paid for their entire shift, so it is a kindness to tip if the experience has been good.

It used to be customary before we had minimum wage. That's my point.

Think about it. Why only waiting staff and not all the other people in serving roles (retail, customer service, reception, office workers, cleaners, etc.) who are on the same hourly rate as waiting staff?

Why are waiting staff singled out for this extra boost to their wages and everyone else is excluded?

It’s laughable how you are trying to justify it to yourself. Why don’t you just tip all other minimum wage workers if you are so concerned about the inequality?

I don't tip anyone unless they have done something above beyond the remit of their paid role.

I'm asking those that do tip waiting staff why they choose not to tip other people on the same wage who perform a service for them.

It's seems odd to justify their tip 'because waiting staff are on minimum wage' but completely ignore all the other people on minimum wage. I don't understand their logic. No-one on this thread has been able to explain that.

You might have someone valet your car. Do you tip them? You might have a reliable cleaner at your place of work. Do you tip them? You might see people in the supermarket stacking shelves with products for you to buy. Do you tip them?

I'm just trying to understand why people who tip limit it to that one specific role.

Apparently servers in the US regularly say they don't want to get rid of tipping in exchange for what we might call a living wage-surveys show they think they get more overall from tips.
It would be fairer to remove tipping obviously, as it's just as easy to bring expensive food and drinks as it is to bring the cheapest thing on the menu with tap water, plus the tipping system might favour certain types of people (when I was a young waitress, I got more tips than older male waiters, despite them being just as good as me).

Well yes exactly, that's the whole crux of the problem. Im a min wage worker in retail, tipping another min wage worker in hospitality for doing a similar job to me eg.interacting with the public, explaining what you sell and being pleasant and courteous. All day every day. Its like a waiter coming into my shop and not buying exactly what they want as they know they cant afford it as they need to tip me.

Its actually crazy.

Never noticed your username until now, are you a John Mellencamp fan by any chance?

It seems that people will bend themselves into pretzels justifying tipping waiters and not care workers taking care of your nan.

I always imagine a couple of flatmates in the US, one in working minimum wage in retail and the other one working minimum wage in a nice restaurant. The waitress will be bringing home $$$ in tips and will probably say something along the lines of if you can't afford to tip , stay home , which means the flatmate in retail will never be able to afford to eat out.
Make it make sense.

Love it when people have to resort to generalised insults because they can't actually think of any rebuttal 😁

What's that difference please? We have this with Sunday trading too. Retail workers can't possibly work on Sundays, poor things. But it's ok for hospitality and leisure workers to work on Sundays and not have the hallowed "family time".

@igelkott2026 And probably be chased down the road - we were many years ago when we gave 10%. It’s very very difficult to not tip in the USA it’s cultural and expected. Here it’s a service charge and we do occasionally round down but not in a top class restaurant eg Michelin star. The serving staff know what the food is and are knowledgable. It’s a different service to plonking a burger down.

If you don't understand the historical difference, nothing I can say can help you.

Retail workers here work Sundays, im not s@Createausername1970re why you think we don't?

And its just a song I love @

@Doingtheboxerbeat, sorry i didn't finish there.

Sorry i misquoted there

Think you have directed that response at the wrong person 🤣.

I said that I do tip certain professions out of habit, but not sure why as no one tips me for getting my filing alphabetically correct.

Yes sorry I misquoted.

No one has given any justification as to why bringing food to the table is worthy of additional money compared to care work or early years - which has a higher threshold for knowledge, skills and responsibility.

Yes there's a historical element of wealthy diners tipping the servants in eating establishments - they would also have tipped hotel workers, porters in a railway station etc.

Those days are long gone - and tipping should have gone with them.

‘Bringing food to a table’ shows just how little you know about what hospitality work involves. How about juggling 8-10 tables at a time, dealing with large groups, co-ordinating between the (usually emotionally fractious) kitchen and front of house, long periods of time dashing about on your feet and fetching and carrying large weights balanced precariously on trays, dealing with very demanding or drunk people, cleaning up unpleasant messes, having to deal with judgy comments about it not really being a profession and still smiling, 40-50 hour weeks as standard?

I’m not suggesting other jobs aren’t difficult, but very few are as difficult with such long and antisocial hours.

I don't think waiting on tables is an easy job at all but I don't see why it's more deserving of the Lady Bountiful treatment than any other difficult job.

And just coincidentally that gives you an excuse to save yourself money 🤔