AIBU to assume an almost 12-year-old no longer believes in Santa?

[EagerHelper]

My sons are in their 30s so maybe I’m misremembering, hence this post to get some feedback from parents with younger kids.

My niece is 12 in a few weeks, and I was asking her what she wanted for her birthday. I mentioned something she might like and she said “no I think I might ask for that for Christmas”, which got us on to the subject of Christmas. I told her how oldest son wrote to Santa but didn’t tell me, then when he didn’t get the requested gift that’s how he found out Santa wasn’t real.

Niece just carried on chatting but her mother (SIL) was staring daggers at me and they left shortly after.

I then got an angry message from her saying niece still believes in Santa (and the tooth fairy apparently) and I’ve ruined things.

I was very apologetic, but it would never have occurred to me that an almost 12 year old would still believe.

Is this still common at that age? I’m pretty sure my sons stopped believing at about the age of 8 at the latest.

My youngest is this age. She does not believe. But I would not be happy if someone took it upon themselves to directly say "santa is not real", because in our family, it's never been admitted. We just don't verbalise it. I know she knows he's not real, I know she knows I know she knows he's not real, but we (and her older sibling) have this unspoken thing that it's just not directly admitted. That's OUR way, our magic, and not yours to shit upon.

DO NOT DISCUSS SANTA with other people's kids UNTIL AND UNLESS the parent has directly talked about Santa not being real themselves in front of the child. I am in my 50s and my mother has still not ever said "Santa is not real" to me. I like that!

I don’t think (m)any NT children really, truly believe beyond about the age of 8 or 9. A lot go along with it though because they enjoy the magic, think its what their parents want to hear or have some misguided idea that they won’t get a stocking or will get less presents if they let on (if they see that there’s a disparity between what the adults in the family get vs. the kids). I know for a fact DD9 hasn’t believed since she was about 5 but every year she carries on like she does because she enjoys getting involved with her younger sibling and being part of all the associated traditions. She also has a friend the same age who was making comments that suggested he was questioning it when he was about 7, he’s a very bright boy and I’d be shocked if he hadn’t figured it by now, but if you asked his mum she’d say he still properly believes…

I'm not surprised she's angry
I would be too

(And yes I know this is a very unpopular opinion on here!)

Out of interest at what age would you say you can talk freely about things like this. So if not 12 - 14? 17? 21?

If a child in secondary school doesn’t know then it’s time for a helpful adult to tell them the truth imo before their friends realise and absolutely rip the piss out of them forever after.

I agree. It would be a sign to me that the child has some kind of neurodiversity or learning disabilities. With what I know of my children's peers growing up, almost all children have stopped believing by eight at the latest, even if they 'play along' with their parents for another year or two.

YANBU, OP.

I was a child in the 60's and all my peer group knew by the age of around 7. It would've been unthinkable (and actually questionable) if someone of 12 still believed in Santa and/or the tooth fairy. A lot of parents these days seem determined to infantalise their kids, mostly I believe for their own benefit. It's actually a form of control.

Same!
Or just very naive. You’ve probably done her a favour amongst her peers.

Is the girl home educated?
Does she not mix with other children her age?

When do you stop, though? If a 17yo (still technically a child) still believes in Santa, how could you guarantee that an 18yo wouldn't; or a 30yo, or a 60yo?

Did you confirm it? Mine asked me to confirm aged 10 and said he wanted the truth so I gave it. He also got a bit upset but I didn’t backtrack. I didn’t want to lie (further) when he had explicitly asked for the truth

Yes, I agree. It's one thing to have a little magical fairy tale for little ones; but far from getting angry at somebody telling your (NT, no SEN) 12yo the truth, you should feel contrite that you have been remiss in this one area in bringing them up normally to the extent that another adult has had to do it for you.

In a way, it's almost like being angry at schools for teaching your child how to brush their teeth and making sure that they do - when they never would have had to if you'd taught them at an appropriate age yourself.

My ND kids would say they believe as it's tradition and routine but really they know it's pretend and know not to go into my locked present cupboard etc. Youngest is 11 now and didn't want to see Santa at Christmas as she said she was too grown up so I think the magic only survives in the house. I wouldn't like someone to say it outright to her though.

This is an excellent and easily-overlooked point, actually. If a 12yo believes that Santa has brought presents - even if she's only told that certain ones from her parents were from Santa - why on earth will she think to thank the people who actually bought and gave them?

Learning basic gratitude and remembering to always thank people who have been kind to you is an important lesson, which she absolutely should have learned by now.

You'd expect that to be what happened but I always remember a lovely post from a Y7 Form teacher who absolutely loved her class because one girl, who did have mild learning difficulties told the class what she had asked Santa to bring her, the teacher was then on edge just waiting for some smarty pants kid to make a mocking remark, and no body did.. all 29 other kids let the comment go. Kids CAN be kind but you don't hear of it much on mumsnet.

I was deliberately careless with wrapping paper and so that DS could work it out.. can't remember exact age, but still in primary school. He is now 25 and "Santa" still brings him new jamas every year.

That’s nice but presumably the class knew that girl had learning difficulties and so knew to let it go - I doubt they’d react the same to a neurotypical/average 12 year old tbh. It’s not really doing an average 12 year old a kindness to let them go on believing.

I remember that I didn’t let on that I knew Santa wasn’t real until I was 15 and my mum asked me. Partly altruistic as my sister was 7 years younger than me and partly selfish I was worried that I would get one less present 😅.

It might be something that they enjoy all pretending is real and so I wouldn’t have talked about it with her. But I suspect she knows and they just not had the conversation as they all like to pretend.

My older two boys still believed in Santa until they were almost 12, my youngest started questioning when he was about 8. I think you never assume, you always check, otherwise you risk spoiling the magic. You should have checked with the parent in this instance.

I think at 11 it’s just unnecessary to discuss Santa not being real with any child that isn’t yours.

All kids are different, so you shouldn't assume. It's up to the parents to tell them. Some kids won't care Santa isn't real, but some will be gutted (like my DD was) so you have to pick your moment to tell them. Age 11-12 I would say err on the side of caution and just don't mention it - seems a bit 'bull in a china shop' that you blundered onto the topic without really knowing your audience.

Most families I grew up went with the Santa DELIVERS the presents but from a relatively early age the children knew that the presents were paid for by family and friends. It also helped to explain disparities between what Sanra brought to one house compared to that of the much more ostentatiously wealthy family living at the end of the road..

My GS still believes but is now condescendingly opposed to the idea of tooth fairy and Easter bunny but only in past few months! ) He’s 13 this year but in his defense is ASD although no learning difficulties. As he’s in secondary school I suggested he keep this to himself

You always assume they think it's real. Always!

Until what age, though? Should you hold off on asking for adult volunteers to dress up and be Santa, in case they too still believe and you've just devastated them by spoiling it all?!