AIBU to think a cheating husband cannot still be a great dad

[Dontlickthebin]

I've seen so many posts on Mumsnet about DH affairs. It's unbelievable how callous these men are.

What I often also see is "DH is a great Dad... DH loves our kids etc..."

Really? Is that really the case? To me when you cheat, you cheat on your partner but you also cheat your children - you are basically saying that whole stable family situation you are being raised in... yeah that's l actually a lie. It doesn't exist. Doesn't feel like something a great Dad would do.

There's probably been a similar question asked but I see some version of the "Great Dad" mitigation so often that I'm asking again

YANBU - You can't be a Great Dad and a cheater
YABU - Cheating is between partners. You can still be a "great DH" and a cheater

More interested in the conversation than stats for polling

Someone who sees a woman as simply nothing more to buy and use, then discard cannot be a good father. His morality is skewed.

Sorry but that's silly. I don't want to make this discussion about prostitution, but if something's for sale, there's no problem in buying.

You can use the line 'as simply nothing more to buy and use' for any service provider. Is my gardener/barista/hairdresser/accountant traduced to the service they provide, just because I buy that service?

Seeing a prostitute as no more than a collection of holes rather than a human being providing a sexual service, is a warped view that you have.

Please don’t cast your judgments or opinions on me. If you think those who use prostitutes don’t have a skewed morality, that is your choice but I fail to see how instead of helping those who are struggling, many in the sex trade are trafficked, impoverished, abused, some all of the above. Instead of feeling compassion for them, you participate in their continued abuse, you cannot be a good person.

Many - perhaps most - people in minimum wage jobs are impoverished. Unfortunately I can't go around just handing out cash to anyone in such a job. It doesn't stop me paying for someone to make my coffee, cut my hair or clean my toilets. In fact that's the first step in helping out impoverished people who provide services, by actually paying for their services.

I'm in a happy relationship and I don't actually use prostitutes, but I see nothing wrong in doing so. There's no difference between buying any other service. And I certainly don't view people who sell sexual services as disposable bodies to buy and use. They're human beings who rely on people to pay for their services. Much like the rest of us.

Comparing those in the sex trade - and how do you know if the person is there by choice - to a minimum wage barista for example is hard to understand.

Can a cheating woman ever be a good mum? You have to think about that and apply the same to a man.

Agree. Being a good dad is also modelling good values- if he’s fallen out of love, he should leave the mom in a considerate for the kids way and move on (same if the woman cheats). Not cheat.

"If something's for sale..."

So you support slavery as long as slaves are for sale???

Wow. This thread really brought out some invertebrates.

I'm saying all service providers are fully fleshed humans who provide a service. Buying the service is actually how one helps them, because they get paid. And in no way does buying what is consensually on sale, make the buyer immoral.

To choose one specific type of service and reduce the provider to a collection of holes or a disposable body to use and abuse, shows a very warped view on your part. You choose to see sex workers as mere pieces of meat, and that is why you have an issue with people who use them.

Whereas is I see sex workers as human beings no difference to myself, only they provide a specific service for money. Which is why I have no issue with people buying that service. As long as the transaction is consensual.

On sale by whom? One person cannot own the other in order to sell them into slavery.

But if someone were to advertise say they'd work for me 12 hours a day, every day, doing whatever I need to be done, for x amount of money, I'd see nothing morally wrong in hiring them.

In fact these kind of service providers exist - they're called PAs.

I see sex workers as someone being exploited. I don’t like exploitation in any guise and will speak out where I can against it. How have I reduced anyone to something usable or replaceable? The very fact I am concerned about the welfare of sex workers contradicts your opinion. Those who exploit other human beings are not good people.

I disagree, I think men can be amazing dads and awful to women even though it seems contradictory, people fall out of love, they get mid life crises, breakdowns etc etc, doesn’t stop them having talks with kids about their lives, helping them with homework, giving them hugs,helping them brush their teeth, bringing them to swimming, helping with schoolwork etc etc. I think the biggest disservice parents do is assume a parent should have less interaction with the kids because they messed the mum around and I think all of the ‘he doesn’t deserve’ on mn or the ‘the bar must be low’ don’t know how much of a great dad he can be, no matter what an asshole he is

Sex workers are no more exploited than any other service provider or minimum wage worker. You think the barista or shelf stacker does that because it's their calling? They do it because they need the money to survive.

Matter of fact, the sex worker is usually just as capable of getting a minimum wage shelf stacking job. But they chooses prostitution because of the much higher rate of hourly pay, risks and other issues notwithstanding.

And you're the one who used the line 'as simply nothing more to buy and use' to describe prostitutes. That is your personal view of sex workers, not most buyers'.

You paint a very idealistic view. What about drug addiction? Oppression? Trafficking? To compare to someone who works in a supermarket with union rights, fair pay, non violent working conditions, autonomy over their health and wellbeing is insane.

Nope. Doesn’t matter if any given man is ‘good at compartmentalising’. Whether he is a good father and husband comes from the person he is married to and his children.

He can compartmentalise all the live long day, but if he has done anything to actively jeopardise the long-term wellbeing of his family, he is a bad father and a bad husband.

Many studies have shown, as have prolonged police raids, that the vast majority of sex workers do so voluntarily. Obviously trafficking is an issue and the law should clamp down on it, but broadly there's no more abuse and exploitation in sex work than in many other industries. Especially low wage industries.

So how about if our hypothetical dad only ever uses independent prostitutes who provide their services out of their own free will. Does that change anything? If not, any mention of trafficking is simply a red herring.

Personally a person who cheats is a weak moralled person - they have a choice and they broke trust rather than resolving issues/breaking up first.
If they are great at everything else I would still count that as a weakness in a person that they might not be equipped to teach their kids about. Trust and loyalty are important facets of most relationships for kids to learn.

I know a brilliant mum who has cheated on her kids dad before

I’ll never know.

Because punishment for his cheating was some muscular parental alienation. And now he’s dead.

I do know that a badly hurt parent, at their lowest ebb, too emotionally wounded to be detached and forward-thinking, can cause wounds so deep that 40 years later their children are still trying to heal from them.

It’s not cheating. But it is a betrayal of significant magnitude.

My own 1st husband cheating on me was way less painful, and much easier & faster to recover from than being turned into the weapon aimed at an errant spouse, with no thought given to the reality that “the weapon” was not impervious to the impact.

I think good parents try their best not to take actions that will be to their kids’ detriment.
This includes splitting their household, seriously distressing their other parent, withholding financial support and withdrawing their physical presence and labour support.
All of these things do have exceptions, but in the cases where they are the best choice it is usually because the alternative would be worse (never leave their side but have no job and therefore low income for the family, split the children’s household but protect them from domestic violence, etc) whereas in the case of a cheater it is just to please themselves, not to still benefit the children indirectly.

Absolutely disagree with you. Of course they can be a great person even if they’re a shit partner.

Yes, but it’s not always what would be considered abuse in many circles is it?

It might be complete lack of affection. No more intimacy. My partner, who is very disregulated And snaps and goes off the whole time. It can be a whole bunch of reasons where marriage isn’t great, and they’re ultimately yeah probably the people would be better not together, But that process often takes time to assimilate And I think that’s the period where men and women are often likely to find distraction and comfort elsewhere

I’m not saying I think cheating is okay at all but what I am saying is that it is one thing that occurs in an unhealthy marriage that in my mind isn’t necessarily in some mumsnet Category of the worst thing you could do in a marriage short of DV.

Persistent coldness, Lack of intimacy, Withdrawal of affection, One person treating their partner as a function rather than a person, Years of emotionally neglecting the relationship are to me equal to somebody finding comfort and distraction with someone outside the marriage

I would equally say if you’re always that cold showing no intimacy or affection and seeing a partner as a function, why are you staying in the marriage? Much in the same way as if you want sex with someone else why are you staying in the marriage?

But for some reason on mumsnet, Having an affair of the worst crime, you could commit.

Does her h know?

Do her dcs know?

Is it all on the quiet?

I cheated and I don't think I'm a bad mother. One reason I cheated, I felt at time, was to find some happiness without breaking my family apart.

To throw in a curveball….I’ve seen the cheated on partner turn out to be a far worse parent than the cheater. The extent people will go to weaponise their children never fails to astound me.