AIBU to challenge the school’s wording about pupils rolling skirts up?

[GreenSalon]

Weekly newsletter today from DC’s secondary school contained a paragraph on uniform including the fact that there have been complaints from the public about “pupils who choose to wear skirts” rolling them up to wear them extremely short. It finishes with asking parents to speak to their children about why this is “not a good idea”.

Now, apart from the fact I assume that they must mean girls, is this not clearly implying that short skirts = making themselves vulnerable and if is, then if anything bad happens as a result it is their own fault? I thought we had moved beyond this kind of nonsense.

I only have boys at the school not girls but want to write to the head to point out how utterly sexist this is. DH agrees with me pov but thinks I shouldn’t write. AIBU?

Where did the letter mention 'men feeling uncomfortable'? I mean, it's not an unreasonable desire: that people not be made uncomfortable by other people (especially but not necessarily of the opposite sex) walking around exposing their privates - would you not feel uncomfortable if teenage boys deliberately walked around near you with their privates on display and forcing you to see them?

People aren't saying "Aw, how sweet - they're acting like monkeys and flashers, bless 'em" - we're horrified that any young woman would actively choose to act in this way, and thus are questioning their motives and their parenting that lead to it.

Even teenagers (or younger children) can commit sex offences, whether they intend to or not - if they decide to send nude/indecent photos of themselves (being underage) to others, that is all it takes. It's all semantics really - like when people try to differentiate between the staggering alcoholic drinking 12-packs of special brew under the railway bridge and the middle-class professional routinely unwinding with several bottles of wine or half a bottle of spirits after a busy day at work.

I also don't know why you're so affronted by 'sweaty arses'. We all have them and they do get sweaty, especially in this kind of weather. There's nothing bad or wrong with them, but they are private parts of the body, and not ones that people want to be directly exposed to. Even in naturist camps, the etiquette is to always take a towel to sit on chairs that other people share - precisely because nobody wants to sit where somebody else's unclothed sweaty arse has been.

You can't just deliberately do something gross and antisocial and then turn it back on to the people who complain about it as though they are the ones being unreasonable.

So your issue with the thread is solely with the language used by posters @Gloriia ?

Have you reported these posts?

So if we put aside what you say your issue with the thread is (the language), do you have any other point to make?

No they really don’t, this is not nature this is misogyny

Yes you are being unreasonable!

There's a multitude of reasons schools need to display some leadership, including over Uniform policy. If they keep letting standards and rules slide because they daren't say anything, next thing we'll have children turning up in underwear because the teachers are too scared of the pupils. What's the point in having rules about skirt lengths if Teachers turn a blind eye?!

Come on OP, skirts that are rolled up super high are not a good idea. That's obvious. The school aren't going to list the reasons in a letter which some parents like you would no doubt set their lawyers on to, plus the issues are off school grounds - the letter mentions public complaints (which gives me hope the school are tackling the issue in house).

Reasons they need to think twice about rolling skirts up so high unfortunately includes the fact that pervy and creepy men including paedophiles no doubt love sitting in their car on the school run. Uncomfortable to think of but they're getting their own show and may be taking videos for their own private viewing later or even uploading them online for other creeps. If those in authority don't show that they care about pupil's safety then where are we as a society?!

Yes we know many of the teens will roll their eyes and ignore us when they're out of sight, but they still need to know there's authority figures and rules for them. And secretly children and teens like to know there's rules that parents/teachers care about maintaining even if they like breaking them.

Honestly, why would any parent complain about this letter. Just do the right thing and have a conversation with your child.

If I could see my female work colleagues pants or arse I would feel very uncomfortable

it’s not ok

its internalised misogyny

I'm honestly astonished that some posters think it's fine for children to expose their underwear/private parts in public/at school/while walking to school. It makes me sad for the children that this is normalised.

It's likely they've observed the pervy stares men will be giving them. School uniforms have been sexualised for a long time and when skirts show bums in public then its maybe time to rethink the school uniform.

Yes they do! Please go and watch some nature shows, how do you think copulation in mammals begins? With wine and flowers? I am definitely not misogynistic, I just accept that we have mammal biology and some instincts remain. Humans have breasts to mimic the buttocks, if you weren't aware.

'What should they have said instead? Stop your daughters from rolling their skirts up and looking like absolute whores?'

'Looking like absolute whores'?! I said we'd gone from bad to worse last night after the sex offenders analogy now this. Fgs.

I really hope some of these posters aren't parents. Maybe bored incels?

School girls never look like 'whores'. They do not expose themselves like sex offenders as another poster disturbingly suggested and they don't bare their 'sweaty arse cheeks' to make the poor men uncomfortable.

Isn't there an online course some of you could access on appropriate language when discussing children?

I mean they are dressed like a bunch of tramps TBF. And it's rightly being called out as inappropriate.

Arse cheeks are out, sometimes it's a bit sweaty. Just the truth.

Question for Gloriia, which I asked upthread and have looked for an answer but couldn't find one, so apols if I've missed it.

Are we talking about the same thing? I asked you if you knew the specific 'fashion' most pps are talking about here, or whether you thought we were talking about girls just hoicking up there skirts a bit? This is crucial, because most people would agree (I think) that the latter is just an eye-rolling issue and doesn't constitute indecency or make everyone else feel uncomfortable (not just boys, Gloriia, as has been explained at length...)

I don't think you clarified this point. I'm asking again because a) I cannot believe you condone this behaviour in a minority of girls and b) no-one is saying wearing a slightly shorter skirt than the regulation one is indecent in any way.

So Gloriia - have you seen the butt-revealing skirts or not?

It isn't fine true. It has just been grossly commented on with sneers by some posters on here.

The answer is to discuss welfare and dress codes in a calm measured way. No accusations of being whores, sex offenders or sex mad monkeys. A blameless discussion of standards and rules with added clear instructions that male teachers and boys can shove their 'uncomfortable feelings'up their arse.

The blaming and slurs on this thread are so disturbing. Some by alleged teachers which sadly doesn't surprise me

The answer is tights or trousers to prevent the obsession with arse cheeks and gussets. I've yet to see a secondary school where opaque tights are not policy but apparently there's lots of them according to the 'sweaty arse cheeks' observers..

'I mean they are dressed like a bunch of tramps'

And another disturbing comments about schoolkids.

Staggering. I hope you are neither a teacher not a parent.

Schoolkids are not dressed like 'whores' nor 'tramps'.

I don't see a problem with the wording tbh. So many girls roll their skirts up here. It isn't an appropriate look for school and nor is it for a workplace. It very much seems that parents take umbrage with any rules that aren't their own and do not support schools. It is tiring for teachers to try to enforce school rules with any kind of backing from parents. There is nothing empowering about having your underwear on display whilst going to and from and being at school.

Are you really an ex teacher? I'm not sure what you aren't getting here. I don't condone rule breaking, no. The point is the way to enforce rules is not to be so appallingly sneery about school kids as many are on here. I presume these archaic views are repeated at work/schools and the cummunity in general. If you were a teacher did this critical, judgemental, derogatory approach work?!

I support dress codes. I do not support language like tramps, whores, sweaty ares cheeks or likening school girls to sex mad monkeys. I think I've made that clear?

Surely instead of going on and on about monkeys you might join me in condeming the recent 'sex offenders', 'whores' and 'tramps' comments?!

We should teach girls to have self respect and not to expose their bodies as so many do with skirts so short you can see their bottom cheeks. The contrast between what boys and many girls wear is so marked, it’s ridiculous.

In answer to your personal questions, I refer you to my previous posts.

But - please can you clarify and answer my simple question: are we talking about the same thing, because your posts seem odd if you really are aware of what is being discussed here. It's a simple and not a personally intrusive question - have you seen this particular 'fashion'? I suspect not.

You are being silly about what you call 'monkeys'. I haven't mentioned monkeys - only you. I've mentioned primates - which are not quite the same thing (monkeys are primates, but not all primates are monkeys). My point was a serious one, relating human behaviour to primate behaviour, which, since we are indeed primates, is relevant. Why are you upset by a comparison to our primate relatives? I find it fascinating, as anyone interested in science, nature, anthropology etc would.

You seem determined to twist people's words, yet won't answer my simple and non-personally intrusive question, which I think is very relevant to the discussion here. We might all be talking at cross purposes.

'Yes, pubescent or nubile young female animals may feel the urge to display their sexual organs - or at least, their erogenous zones, in this case their buttocks. It's nature! Chimps, baboons, all kinds of primates do it.'

You mentioned monkeys.

Any condemnation of the use of 'tramps', 'sex offenders' and 'whore' to describe school girls? Go on I dare you. Maybe language that you approve of or you just darent criticise vile misogyny? Which is it?

I can't answer for other pps use of the terms you mention. I haven't used them, so please target the correct people.

I haven't mentioned monkeys. You have used it yourself! Why are you using a term you find offensive? If I did mention monkeys, please correct me.

Monkeys generally have tails - that's a quick (maybe not always totally accurate zoologically, but hey) way of identifying them. I think you'll find the primates don't generally have tails, or obvious tails.

Please don't make things up, Gloriia.

And you know what? I find your disrespect for our primate relations rather offensive, so right back atcha!

I am a parent. These girls are dressing very very inappropriately and it's being rightly called out. What else do you want us to say? Compliment the inappropriate dress choice?

This.

I'm female, seeing someone's backside or rolls of fat in some cases is unpleasant. It looks gross. Its a herd like mentality, thankfully some dont follow that particular herd.

'It's a simple and not a personally intrusive question - have you seen this particular 'fashion'? I suspect not'

For the trillionth time every school I've encountered <and we have moved a bit> girls wear tights or trousers.

I s'pose I have to believe that others have witnessed 'sweaty arse cheeks' on display (though struggle to understand why the teachers dont engage their brains and have 'tights or trousers' like the vast majority of schools, probably too busy firing off tedious emails about skirts).

I have however seen short skirts/tight shorts etc at sixth form and noticed the poor men managed to cope. What is it with secondary school teachers? I can't comment on sweaty arse cheeks as A. I didn't look and B. Why would I?!

The point is you don't talk about school girls like we have seen on here. It is sickening.

Any uniform breach should be dealt with calmly, professionally and without rabid misogyny and body shaming.

'seeing someone's backside or rolls of fat in some cases is unpleasant'

I mean I'd lol if it wasn't all so deeply depressing.

We are now fat shaming. Are you slim hun? I hope in this heatwave you won't have any 'rolls of fat' on show at work?

Just to be clear, you were the first one to call the men in parks 'sex offenders' - when they're just dressing/adjusting their clothes as they like and presumably also shouldn't be shamed or criticised for doing this - and then, having used that phrase to describe those men, you extrapolated that schoolgirls flashing their private areas at people all day must be being called sex offenders and criticised me for you reaching your own conclusion!!

If these girls are dressing as they please..... We are just speaking as we please and using our freedom of speech.