AIBU to challenge the school’s wording about pupils rolling skirts up?

[GreenSalon]

Weekly newsletter today from DC’s secondary school contained a paragraph on uniform including the fact that there have been complaints from the public about “pupils who choose to wear skirts” rolling them up to wear them extremely short. It finishes with asking parents to speak to their children about why this is “not a good idea”.

Now, apart from the fact I assume that they must mean girls, is this not clearly implying that short skirts = making themselves vulnerable and if is, then if anything bad happens as a result it is their own fault? I thought we had moved beyond this kind of nonsense.

I only have boys at the school not girls but want to write to the head to point out how utterly sexist this is. DH agrees with me pov but thinks I shouldn’t write. AIBU?

I live near a large secondary school. Trousers are an option for girls, but I have never seen more than two or three wearing them, ever. The girls seem to prefer skirts.

I would have hated to wear trousers myself, even though I do at the weekends.

We were rolling skirts up in the 60s and 70s

We did not roll them up as short as girls do nowadays. And we didn't have the skin tight lycra that rides up over your bum that you have to be constantly tugging down.

And we often wore underslips, too.

Why are girls rolling them up? Not why we pretend it to be what message are they wanting by doing it

Are people genuinely that naive?

I went to DC’s school last week. I was carrying something to the high school and in front of for me a girl was going up the stairs with the skirt really short. You could see the string of her tampon if you were on the lower stairs. I don’t think it’s the look she was going for.

I think it was a perfectly reasonable request. Yes, maybe could have been worded differently.

Not a great look for self respect and dignity.

Absolutely not like this it hasn’t. I went to school in the 70s and 80s, girls were absolutely not showing their pants or pressurised to do so then.

Well you clearly are not amongst state high school students as they walk to and from school.Some of us are, daily.

If you are happy to have your arse showing, don't want to be taken seriously and like having lecherous looks then very rolled up skirts are a great idea, otherwise they are not.

It is very unfair on girls to pretend the world is a different place to the one it is. They need to be able to make informed decisions.

Yeah. No. If you spend any time on here , or even in the real world you will realise that being a girl in uniform (regardless of skirt length) is enough to make men leer, whistle, make comments and worse. It starts as young as 11! Sometimes in primary school uniforms.

Don’t you dare put that responsibility on children(regardless of the length of their skirts).

The country outside London is truly a very strange place. This is a phenomenon unknown here.

Girls and boys should wear tailored shorts or long trousers in my opinion.

Yes I think arse cheeks hanging out is scruffy.

To all the (lucky!) pps saying they don't know what we're referring to and that teenage girls have been shortening their school skirts since the year dot...er, tell me you've never seen what I've seen, without telling me...etc etc

I (and I think other traumatised pps) are talking about the sort of skirts which are almost a thong with a frill attached. They are designed to reveal the buttocks to about half-way up. Sitting in my car near a high school once I looked up from my book to see 2 pairs of naked cheeks passing my window. Once seen, never forgotten. I though 'WHAT?"

Bad enough with tights, but revolting without. It is just the pressure of porn culture on young women who are too naive to understand that. Why is it that it's always (throughout history) women who feel pressured to reveal their erogneous zones? Boys and men don't seem to feel this pressure. I find the whole business annoying precisely because it's a demonstration of sexual politics. Some people interpret it as a feminist choice but it just isn't - it's unequal and it's a pandering choice.

While I agree with your last paragraph, it’s not that traumatising, if at all. Come on now. Exaggerations like that don’t help. Especially if you’re trying to educate the girls as to why it’s a bad idea.

I was trying to put a comic spin on it, I admit! But it was eye-popping, I can tell you. I was just feet away from these buttocks....and they were most definitely on deliberate display. It reminded me of primate behaviour when a chimp or baboon is ready for mating.

Some recent posters are getting to the heart of it.

Yes, clothing and fashion are a form of expression. Unfortunately curent ‘fashion’ is centred around a look driven by patriarchal norms and the male gaze. Incredibly short skirts, hot pants etc are part of that. Whether or not actual men are ogling them (and I agree that it is men’s’ responsibility not to be perverts and not to ogle children, however they are dressed), school should be a place where girls are exempt from the pressure to dress in a way designed to present their bodies for the male gaze. A place where their value and their social capital is not based on how closely they fit a patriarchal norm (see also rules about fake lashes, tan etc), but on who they are. In this sense, uniform can be seen not as restriction but as freedom from a society which values women and girls primarily on their appearance.

Also: I’m a teacher. You absolutely do see bum cheeks. Sadly. The wording of the email in the OP was very likely based on the fact that is really is ‘not a good idea’ to wear a skirt which reveals your bum, the wings of your sanitary pad, etc. not because of men but because it’s embarrassing and not smart and not appropriate!

I think its a general trend of wearing super revealing clothing in fashion. There is that they should really wear what they want but my 50 something brain gets shocked at how naked some girls look. Yesterday I was at the airport and this no older than 12 girl had a pink tights and bralet type top. The fabric was so thin she was almost naked. In an age where there sunglasses that can take pictures how would allow your child to dress like that? And the school skirt thing it has always happened but seems worse and more widespread now. So I think the schools is right to try and do something about it and the wording is fine

This is why several schools have banned skirts. It looks shit

It’s so ironic and sad that the “freedom” to wear anything they want restricts their freedom of movement, activity levels and enjoyment. Looks over actually “doing”. Plus ca change.

To those with DDs how do you talk to them about their style of dressing?

The thing for me here is that there was an incident in recent weeks where a girl of about 15 / 16 was raped and she'd been hanging around sand dunes at 3am near a tented homeless community - some people were against people stating that she shouldn't have been there because they were in the same feminist mindset - but the reality is we know as women these things aren't safe! It's wrong to encourage women and young girls not to take protective measures because they should have the right not to, yes we shouldn't have to but we do.

And yes I hate to see school girls constantly tugging their ridiculously short skirts down. At one time of day they used to walk to school with the shirts part undone and the knot of their tie in their cleavage area which I think schools clamped down on. But no girl should be going to school dressed provocatively, as others have r said it leaves male students and teachers open to allegations when the girl bends down to get a book out of her bag and shows the whole room everything she's got. And it's undignified for the girl to be going up the stairs at school and showing so much of her intimate area to everyone behind - especially when periods can be unpredictable and messy in teen years! There's too many kids that are feral and don't know right from wrong these days and you just don't know if a hand or camera might take advantage of that situation.

I think the school has worded it as carefully as they can. It looks awful (from a sartorial viewpoint) and quite frankly no one, apart from predatory males wants to see their underwear (and quite often more than that!) I've never worn short skirts as my Mum told me ' You don't have the legs for it dear'. Harsh but I 🤔 she was right!

And shows little self respect

Yes . Dress your age and appropriately for the occasion are the two rules that have worked pretty well so far.

Dress appropriately- hard agree

dress your age? Can you elaborate?

Girls have always rolled their skirts up. We were doing it in the early 70s but more than 3 inches above the knee would earn a visit to the head mistress's office to explain yourself. Respect and self discipline was still a thing back then. Now is seems the word "NO" is an alien concept to the youngsters of today. They have to be able to do as they please and dress as they please at any cost, with parents kowtowing to their every wish.
I wonder how these youngsters will fare when (and if) they reach the work place and realise that there are rules they need to abide by 🙄