Not all men, but always men

[Amodernhistory]

Driving home from work tonight to the main news stories on the radio being 1) man tortures adopted baby to death and 2) man arrested after child ends up in crocodile enclosure at zoo.

I am absolutely sick of the daily onslaught of problematic men, monsters, committing outrages. That’s all, no suggestions, just AIBU to be sickened by this constant stream of beasts who live amongst us (Gisele Pelicot’s husband, recent terrorist attacks, daily murders of women by men) combined with personal experiences of men who ‘you wouldn’t have thought it to look at him’ turning out to be sex pests and paedophiles is putting me right off them as a sex class. Not your man, not your son, not my (lovely) Dad, but all the other men… how do we know which ones?

Its hard not to conclude it’s a man problem.

Oh we haven't had this exact thread for... oh... two minutes 😴

Where did I say London ?

Not started by me. Do feel free to scroll on by…

Some will bleat that women are protecting all men here by saying “not all men”, then those same women tend to disregard some of the men because of X characteristic?

What fascinates me is the women such as yourself who are so enraged by white men (rightly so) but then ignore men coming from countries with abhorrent practices towards women and girls (as I said above, Iraq girls being married off and raped at 9) because it doesn’t suit your ideology.

At least have the bollocks when on the point of men committing VAWG to include some of the worst cultures even if their skin colour doesn’t suit your agenda. All crimes against women matter. Not just the white ones.

Yes, I completely agree. There are wonderful men out there, but you need to learn how to identify them. Those of us from families of good men have an easier time than women who haven’t been shown what to look for from birth.

Women need to pick the men in their lives carefully, but there’s an entire political movement right now trying to convince women they need to stop taking birth control, settle down with the first man they fancy, and start having children and being dependent immediately. Apparently feminism giving women the ability to be self sufficient while making sure a man is worth settling down with has “gone too far.”

When people like you deflect conversations like this away from men in general and towards ‘incompatible cultures’, you’re not only showing how easily manipulated you are by populist nationalists - you’re also giving white men a free pass. If we wanted to get rid of violence against women and children overnight in this country and could only choose one ethnicity to evict - we’d round up the white men and send them to a prison island somewhere, because they are the biggest threat to women and children in this country. If you wanted to make a blunt impact on an issue, and were happy to tar all white men with the same brush you merrily tar men from other cultures, that is.

The fact that you immediately jump to incompatible culture nonsense is deeply frustrating.

Men are the problem. Not all men - but men. That’s the common denominator we need to tackle. Male violence.

I was involved in some analysis a few years back, looking at trends in domestic violence over long periods. It was sickening how you could see the spikes for the World Cup, Euro's etc... like, its just a game. Its literally just millionaires who they will never meet, kicking a bag of wind around a field, and yet there are men out there, lots of men, who drink too much and then use the occasion as a justification for violence towards their partners and children. It's pathetic. It lowered my opinion of men at the time, I was just disgusted that so many care more about a game than their own families.

But do you have any actual figures for what you’re saying?

If you are factually correct. I’d argue that it’s likely because the majority of men in this country are white.

I was making a point my friend. London has the highest % of immigrants in the country.

It’s mostly men. I don’t disagree.
But in my personal experience, the first time I knew a child who was being sexually abused, it was by both parents. I was very young and the child confided in me that her mother and father and other family members were abusing both her and her baby brother.
There was an attempted kidnapping outside my school when I was older. It was a couple. The woman tried to lure girls from the school into the car.
My best friend at school was physically and emotionally abused by her mother.
As a teenager, the same girl was attacked by a group of girls. She had bald patches where they’d yanked her hair out and had to get bits of their fingernails extracted which were embedded in her skin.
My own mother once strangled my sister til she almost passed out because she rang the doorbell too many times on a Saturday morning. She was six.
It is mostly men, and men are more dangerous, but I don’t automatically trust women either. I know they can abuse. I make sure not to give my dc the impression that it’s only ever men who are a threat.
I think it’s more common than some people think or want to believe for women to be abusive, violent and commit sexual assaults.
I have had the experience of being on an (all female) psychiatric ward where a number of the patients were recidivists who split their time between there and the prison. It was nowhere near as bad as men would be but it was frightening enough.
I am more wary of men but like I say, I am not reflexively trusting of women either. I think they have different social conditioning and are physically weaker and that makes up some of the difference in how likely they are to commit violent crimes or be abusive. Their brains may be different in a way that makes them less inclined to be aggressive and violent but I don’t believe they are morally superior or, on an individual basis, inherently trustworthy. On a societal level, the stats largely speak for themselves.

YANBU , I’m so disturbed by both these stories. It’s kept me awake thinking of that poor baby. My son is the same age 😢. How can such evil exist. And yes agree not all men but always a man. My male
partner agrees

I don’t excuse any man, and I’m not blind to what men all over the world do.

I am also not blind to folk like you sucking all the oxygen from the debate and blowing it at non-white men. I would like to examine men as a class - their entitlement, their anger issues. The common denominator is man. I don’t give a shit what colour or religion the man is. Why do you?

Less desirable cultures? Bloody hell. As someone who has travelled extensively including to those countries that have been mentioned here, studying the deescalation of violence and peacemaking through the role of women, achieved through cross cultural relationship and understanding, this language is just… abominable. Saying rape statistics are high in certain countries with a culture of violence towards women is one thing, labelling whole countries or cultures as “less desirable” is… racist? Yes, racist.

The polarisation of the sexes will do no one any good. The manosphere can link to these threads just as much as the anti-male rhetoric in the ever expanding femosphere. Feeding more anger and more hate.

How you break the cycle is where the energy needs to be focused, Man hating mums are never going to give anyone a good start, and neither are woman hating dads,

In fact, I’d never thought I’d say this but I’m so sickened that I genuinely feel we should bring back capital punishment for child abuse/murder . We cannot let this happen to another child 💔

And you ignoring that not all cultures are equal toward women in terms of rates of violence shows how easily you’re sucked in by enter some form of insulting propagandist of the time here to shame you from asking questions.

The issue is, we know about the home grown ones. We shame them as a society. The latest poor baby dying at the hands of those demonic men has gotten a lot of people incensed - we don’t make excuses nor cover it up.

A lot of us are sick of reading how about how many more pond life men are being imported and going on to destroying another woman or girls life when it could’ve been prevented. Just because we have nonces and rapists here doesn’t mean we should just open the borders for more. Men are overwhelmingly the small boats crossings and the asylum seekers - if men are the problem then being over run with more men as well as home natives will increase the risk to women. We did a deal with Albania due to how dangerous their men were to deport them and Albanians are guess what - majority white.

Cultures are a problem because they’re all different hence why we say ‘multiculturalism’. If different cultures didn’t offer both positives and negatives then there wouldn’t be such a thing as culture. If anyone’s frustrating it’s people who deliberately miss the point. I don’t see many female Brits booking long holidays to Iraq, I wonder why that is?

I wouldn’t be signing up to be one of multiple wives in Afghanistan where women can’t speak in public, education is banned, girls are sold because I think their culture is abhorrent. Further to that I wouldn’t take men from that country nor countries like it to reduce the risk to British women. I’d instead save the women from those men. At least in the UK the practices from that country would be deemed shameful and illegal. If you think the men from there are coming over, touching our magic soil and immediately respecting women you’re a bit too optimistic. All we’re doing is increasing the risk to women and girls

What can we do about male violence?
I feel pretty powerless to make a difference outside my own family.

Im not man hating, but you can’t solve a problem if you can’t name the problem. The problem is male violence

This case is a bit different though isn’t it? The suspect is a man with learning difficulties and we need to wait and see how this all unfolded.

Because we take stats to make things better. It works the opposite way whereby we found black women had worst maternal outcomes so we need to combat that. We found black men are more likely to have prostate cancer so they’ll be getting more access to testing than white men.

It’s okay then but it’s not okay to point out how different cultures affect the danger/risk to women and girls? Should we ignore Andrew Tates influence because he’s also a Muslim or is that okay because he’s white? It’s hypocritical not to look at it as a whole and then smear others who notice patterns.

I also had a career as a court reporter from 2001-2013. I appreciate it's some time ago but my experience was the same. I only ever covered one case of a woman who committed murder and she killed a man who had been abusing her.

Oh jesus, this has turned into another immigrant bashing thread. Sigh

One thing that did strike me in the Davey case: Jamie Varley confessed his violent thoughts to his sister. Why didn't she report him or take the baby away? I would have. This isn't to blame her exactly. Perhaps she didn't realise he was a pedophile. But just goes to show how " good" men can get away with murder.

I read same. That was also true of the man who threw that young French boy 100ft off the Tate Modern viewing gallery and nearly killed him, I read he was with his carer at the time.

Agree on the resentment, and also on the level of depravity. Glad that guy is never getting parole; I hope it means that the courts have started taking it seriously.