AIBU to feel hurt that he cares more about a messy table than being together.

[Periperinotsospicy]

Husband came back after taking DD5 to his parents. I had had a lovely weekend with DD11 doing 11 year old things and just hanging out. He seems to have had a good weekend with DD5.
DH is a stickler for neatness. When ai met him I was quite relaxed about tidiness but I have learnt to keep surfaces as clear as possible, stay on top of laundry etc. I've been doing this all weekend.
When he got back we were at the shops. There was an array of homework books on the table as we'd rushed off to get to shops before they closed. Nothing dirty. Just papers and books.
Now I know any mess on the kitchen table irritates him and he sees it as people not caring about what bother him.
I've missed him lots over the weekend.
Background. He is not one to tell me he loves me. I'm not sure he does but he tells me I'm being silly when I say that.

So my AIBU is around- he was in a mood when we got home. Fine with the kids but a bit off with me. I had bought a new knife (half price!) And he had a bit of a go about how we don't need a new knife. I hadn't bought anything else for myself. Dd11 had got some bits and pieces and I'd got some kids stuff for our summer holiday.

I feel like I'm just not good enough for him. That he just wants a reason to be mad with me. He doesn't notice what I do do just what I miss. I haven't seen him for 3 days and he's not happy to see me, just irritated.

He feels really upset that I left the table like that as it reflects my disregard for his feelings and I should have made sure it was tidy before he got back. That I think he's not allowed to be upset because it doesn't bother me.

Is this a nothing argument? Am I being stupid? I think I'm upset because his feeling about a not totally clear table exceed his feelings for being happy to see me.
This sounds so stupid written out.

So he's telling you his triggers and barriers. Rather than telling him how to fix it ie therapy. Why don't you tell him some of yours. Empathetic communication or a sort. Tell him that it makes you anxious when you feel like he's just annoyed with you and displays no affection for you. Or whatever it is you want to say. But the point is that you recognise his feelings because you have feelings too.
Start from here. Then work towards gow can we solve this together. What would help each other etc.
Ultimately you have to solve this or it will make you miserable

It escalated into a full row because he says He's not allowed to be upset about this and its all about my feelings.
Of course he is not alowed to upset about it there is nothing to get upset about it was just a few books on a table. Have you told him it is not normal to react like this.

How come he can't look at the table and think "oh that could do with a quick tidy" and then get on and do exactly that?

And he isn't willing to see it from your point of view? Can't accept that sometimes things take longer than he'd like to get done? That sometimes you are busy? That he's also the kids parent and could pick it up? That he could ask the child it belongs to to pick it up?

It isn't just about the table. It's about "this has to be done when I want it done otherwise you don't love me"

And that's horrible.

This has got to me a bit because my son is like this with me. It feels very abusive and controlling to me. My son is autistic which doesn't excuse it, but might go a little way to explaining his rigidity around it.

You need views like this, because they reassure you that he's right and you're wrong, just as he's trained you, there is nothing wrong with his behaviour, he calls the shots and dictates whose feelings matter. Clue, it's not yours!
It is not reasonable for a husband to berate a wife because there a few books on the kitchen table in a family home.

If he was that bothered he could have spent 3 minutes tidying the books himself, that would have taken a lot less energy than the childish strop he had instead

You bought a knife you say @Periperinotsospicy ?

That’s useful. Cut him out of your life with it.

Honestly you’re worth so much more than this petty little man.

Yes how lovely, the concept of compassionate compromise 🫂
This is what should come naturally in relationships, respect for both partners Viewpoints
💚🙏💚

How responsive do you think he'd be to you saying 'sorry, I know it upsets you but I didn't do it on purpose. Can we talk about compromising on some things?' If the table is an especial point for him then I think that should be respected and you should go out of your way to keep it tidy, even if it feels absurd to you - but it shouldn't be out of fear of him, it should be out of respect.

And YOU get to have especial points too that he must acknowledge and manage - it must be a two-way thing. If he can't or won't reciprocate then that is definitely a respect issue on his side and becomes a deeper problem.

He sounds an absolutely vile narcissist who tries to turn everything round on you. Honestly OP he’s not worth it. Your poor kids living with such a control freak.

This. You’ve been trying to persuade everyone / coax people to tell you he is right and you are wrong this whole thread because you’re desperate to be told that you’re being bad and he does love you and he’s just normal but frustrated with your bad behaviour. Because that is what he tells you and if it’s true then he’s not being abusive or controlling and you can just be better and then he will love you.

But that’s not the truth.

He can. The compromise would be that you tidy the table as often as you can, because you know it matters to him, and he doesn't act like a twat when you don't do it, because he knows you try your best. You seem to be keeping your side of the bargain. He doesn't.

Why is it, by the way, that the table being untidy shows you don't care about him so you have to apologise and grovel, but him not saying he cares about you doesn't show he doesn't care about you and you should just suck that up?

It escalated into a full row because he says He's not allowed to be upset about this and its all about my feelings.

I don't think he is allowed to be upset about a few books on the dining table though. It's not normal or healthy to be so inflexible and to have such exacting standards in a household where other people live (including children!). If it was just the dining table then that might be filed away as a peculiar quirk that that rest of you can work around - but it isn't just that, is it? It's loads and loads and loads of things.

He needs help. Books on a dining table make him anxious. He is not well. I have OCD (I had a traumatic childhood which I guess is the root of my need to control my environment to a ridiculous level) but I have had therapy and I accept it is me who is the one with the issue and I try my hardest every bloody day not to let my illness affect my husband or my children.

Your husband has admitted that books on a dining table make him anxious. He needs to go and speak to his GP and ask to be referred for talking therapy and possibly also consider some anti-anxiety medication. Your role in this is primarily to advocate for and protect your children.

I also want to point out that most abusers have a "reason" why they are abusive, for example they are controlling because they have poor self esteem. This does not, however, justify their abusive behaviour. It is inarguable that your husband is controlling. You have given multiple examples of his controlling behaviour and describe yourself as walking on eggshells in you own home. (However much you try to protect your children, if he keeps behaving this way they will learn to walk on eggshells too if they haven't already.) The questions are a) is he going to take responsibility for his behaviour and b) are you going to protect your children if he continues to refuse to do so?

Encourage him to talk to his friends about this if they are supportive types. He needs to see that his anxiety is the issue and it is unreasonable for him to expect everyone else to pussyfoot around him for fear of his reaction if they get something "wrong" (in his eyes).

Yes absolutely & you would hope this would be common sense to the likes of those who love to moan & throw toddlerish temper tantrums or silent strops 💚🙏🫂🙏💚

I'm glad you've responded receptively. You will get a lot of aggressive comments on here as I can see already but try not to get overwhelmed. My ex who was very much like this also has ASD, and I let that excuse it all for a long time. It just comes to a point where you realise that it is not your problem and his behavior is not your burden to carry. He can't take his own personal issues out on you. You are a person and you matter. You don't have to put up with it. Putting yourself and your kids first is not wrong, it's never wrong.

I'm not sure that you are ready to hear all of these comments yet, and that's ok. Just sit with it. Remember that if everything was fine, and it was just this occassion that was the problem, you would not have made a thread about it. You know something is wrong - trust your gut. Take care OP x

I think this is all sad.
I think it sounds like he has anxiety (is it ocd?) tied into this and while he cannot control how it feels, he can acknowledge that it's unreasonable to expect other people to live by these standards and to get help. Ultimately a house with kids is never going to be spotless every second of the day.
I grew up with a step dad like this. He would come in and passive aggressively begin tidying the kitchen while I was in the middle of baking. Which was ridiculous cause I'd just get the stuff I was in the middle of using back out again! But it would be so uncomfortable and it put me off in the future.

He sounds quite controlling… sulking was your punishment for not behaving how he wanted you to behave. Ruining your excitement over the knife was also to ruin your mood so you didn’t leave a messy table again. You should feel safe and free to leave messes in your own home. That’s not being a slob, it’s absolutely normal. This isn’t normal or ok behaviour. Is he controlling in other areas too?

My ex was like this and he was autistic. Almost destroyed my emotional health entirely.

He sounds like a controlling, abusive motherfucker.

Which is 💯% why it is about control and not anxiety

Yes my heart goes out to you & I empathise because my own dad is like this too
With him it's always been about control... 💚🙏💚

I think he needs to learn to let go. He disagrees.

Here is the core of your problem - he won't acknowledge there is a problem.

how do I get him to understand that?

@Periperinotsospicy you don't, because he won't (not can't, WON'T).

So you have to tell him it's not fair. And keep telling him. He won't "understand" it - you have to make him ACCEPT it.

And yes his behaviour is controlling (why would you use a weasel word like "consciously" in that sentence?). His behaviour is unpleasant and controlling - he needs to address that. He's making you unhappy and he's making the children unhappy (don't kid yourself that it doesn't affect them) - you owe it to yourself and your children to keep explaining to him how it affects the family.

Is he logical though? If DC was going to return to studying/working with those books - a normal person would not tidy them away if the reading is interrupted.
Life is too short for obsessive tidying up like a demented old woman.
Is he like a demented old woman?
I would be tempted to leave a trail of mess every where.

I think you need communication and compromise.
It is difficult if tidiness makes you feel grounded and you obviously try to keep the house tidy but you have children who are getting bigger and it is their house too. Would it have been less annoying to him if the school books had been in a tidy pile? Would it help if you and the kids had boxes of some sort to chuck stuff into. We each have a nice deep try on the shelf under the coffee table. I can quickly pop things in to keep the table clear.
It would be very good for him to get help both with the need for tidy and with verbalising his feelings.
Obviously you are not being unreasonable but realistically you will probably have to drive any change.

Why is everything his way? What does he change about himself for you ? Nothing i bet. Is this how you want your children to live their childhood?