AIBU to think my in-laws are rude about seeing DS alone?

[SeriouslyIsThisBonkers]

Is this normal? Or really rude and weird?

We're going to visit DH's and my parents next week. They live in a large city overseas, on opposite sides of the city.

We have all traditionally stayed with DH's parents, who have a large house (3 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms). However over the years DH's father (my FIL) has made increasing numbers of snide rude comments to me about things like my appearance, my lack of career (I used to be a university lecturer; now I homeschool DS9, who is AuDHD and couldn't cope in school), the fact I "do nothing all day" and apparently "play at housekeeping". If I ever have any kind of opposing view (I rarely do, but have occasionally about logistical points where he's been completely up the creek) I'm apparently a "silly little girl".

So this time, I said how about DS and I stay with my parents, and DH stays with his. My parents don't have space for three guests and as it is DS and I will be sharing a tiny room and a single bed.

PIL have sent a rude email demanding that DS see them 50% of the days we're there. I send back a very polite email suggesting times and dates. FIL phones DH and tells him the times are insufficient, they'll be organising more time, and that I am to deliver DS to their house or wherever, wait outside, and collect him 2-3 hours later.

I've sent in reply
"I just thought I ought to check whether I am indeed not invited to any of the occasions where I'm bringing DS9 to meet you? I thought perhaps something got lost in translation, since FIL didn't acknowledge my email and phoned DH instead."

No answer to me. PIL apparently fuming, rang up DH to complain about my rudeness. Apparently they want to develop a relationship with DS9 independently of me, because he's THEIR grandchild, and I'm not related to them and they have no interest in having a relationship with me. And they thought I'd be pleased to just go shopping or something for a few hours.

Is this actually how grandparents are meant to behave?
Only able to relate to grandkids without that pesky DIL in the way?

The 50/50 split absolutely doesn't fly. OP's PILs obviously saw much more of OP's child than her parents did because she and her family used to stay at her PIL's house. Her parents weren't demanding 50/50 with their grandson and telling OP's DH that he wasn't welcome in their home. OP's FIL has brought this all on himself. His rude remarks to OP over the years are completely unacceptable. He has criticised:

• her looks
• her lack of career (despite her being a University lecturer who had to give it up to homeschool her son)
• her 'playing' at housekeeping as doing 'nothing all day'

He has also called her a 'silly little girl'. Her DH is a disloyal wet blanket who is scared of his dad and doesn't stop him being incredibly rude to his wife.

Why on earth should OP put up with that treatment and why should their be no consequences for her FIL, despite his bullying behaviour.

I suggest that you email them and say that you are shocked and disappointed by your FIL's behaviour towards you, which you do not find to be at all acceptable. Consider adding bullet points which detail this behaviour.

Explain that PIL will not be seeing your ds without your supervision because you do not feel comfortable with this and because you are concerned that your FIL's attitude sets a very poor example for your son that you would not want him to emulate in any way.

If MIL wishes to visit you and your ds at your parents' house, she will be more than welcome.

As a gesture of goodwill, you will also be willing to supervise one meeting between your DS and FIL at a neutral location outside the home. You will be supervising the interaction at all times.

If there is any further rudeness or disrespect from your FIL, you will need to consider whether it is in your son's best interests to maintain the relationship or cut contact altogether. You do not want him exposed to this sort of toxicity.

Don’t go on the visit. Tell your DH that he can go, with or without the kids, but you’ll play no part in it. See your own family another time.

Practice some icy insults for if you are forced to see them “oh do be quiet Clive, you’re just embarrassing yourself”, “gosh, that is rude, how lucky that DH hasn’t inherited your lack of manners” or “just give it a rest or we’re all leaving.”

And not to derail, but is there no way you can get your DS into a sensible school for at least part of the time? Does he have an EHCP? Good SEN schools do exist. With this family bin fire in the background I would want my independence.

Send an email to PIL stating that their attitude is toxic and you do not want your child around people who openly disrespect their mother. They have “ no right” to see your son and until you receive an apology you will not be bringing your son to their house . I would expect your husband to support you in this.

Edited to say this was in response to thepariscrimefiles.

Well that was then and this is now. Clearly things have changed. We don't know how time was split previously, do we? Just because they stayed at their house it doesn't automatically follow that they had more quality time and social time together. Perhaps they did, I have no idea and neither do you.

I'm aware of all the things the FIL has apparently said that have upset the OP. But this isn't about using access to his grandchild as a way of punishing him, or at least it shouldn't be. I disagree that her DH is a wet blanket, he's a man caught between a rock and a hard place and perhaps he sees a middle ground between two strong characters who just don't see eye to eye. But one of them is his dad. Is he supposed to ruin his own relationship with his dad just because his wife doesn't like him? He's respected her right to not want to stay there and no doubt if her parents had more space he'd be staying with them too. But limiting time spent with his own parents may not be something he is prepared to do.

Now that there is a clear rift and the OP and the FIL do not wish to spend any time together, there needs to be a grown up arrangement that doesn't put her DH in a difficult position where he has to prioritise his PILs over his own parents. If her DH wants to be able to share his child's time equally between both sets of grandparents and he's happy to do whatever running around is needed to facilitate that, then he should be able to. I fully agree that the OP shouldn't have to jump when her FIL says jump and 'deliver' the child to them, but she shouldn't stop her DH facilitating these visits if he wants to. He's respected her decision to not stay there herself, and that's great. But he doesn't have to be told by her that his child can spend less time with them simply because she finds his dad rude. Again, I stress, this should be about what her DH feels is fair and right. If he decides he's happy to spend more time with her PILs than his own for whatever reason, then that's absolutely fine. If not, then a roughly 50:50 split is the right thing to do.

If he wants his son to have just as much time with his parents as hers, then he should not have to ask permission to do that. Grandchildren are not pawns in some power play game. Rationing access should not be used as a form of punishment for PILs you dislike. It's petty and childish. Rise above the urge.

The primary focus of the trip is for both of your to visit your respective parents. The grandchild is visiting both. I would just have you staying with your own parents, and then have the grandchild stay at one house for the first half of the trip and then at the other house for the second half of the trip.

There is obviously some major issue that your FIL has with you, so I wouldn’t be getting involved with negotiating with him, also having lots of drop-offs and pick-ups during the trip would just give him more opportunity to cause problems. Have half the trip child-free and spend time with your parents/relax, and then have the other half focused on activities for your child and quality time with grandparents (and vice-versa at the other house).

The only concern I would have is that FIL will likely use you not being there as an opportunity to slag you off, he’s doing to your face, so may be worse when you are not around. Make it clear BEFORE you allow
your child to spend time with him, that if you become aware that he has been criticising you, or the home education etc, either directly
to, or in front of your child, that you will pull the plug on his time with his grandchild, and that you will be calling your child each day and that needs to be taking place in private so your child feels able to report to you freely what is happening.

As for your DH, he’s in an awkward situation, probably stood his ground with FIL properly and is also wanting to keep you happy. I’d just let him spend time with his parents, and try to separate the issue FIL has with you from that by not being there. DH could try to take the attitude that becuase you aren’t staying with them and there has been some dispute…that he doesn’t want to discuss you with FIL during the trip. Even though FIL sounds like a nightmare, doesn’t mean that DH doesn’t want to see him, and it also might not be possible for him to spend time with MIL or siblings etc without FIL interfering, so may be in a situation of just having to put up with however he behaves.

Oh no! And I'm adamant about allowing in-laws equal rights and respect-but there's none here.
You and DH should already have been challenging FIL's comments. Every time he says something sexist and unreasonable, you BOTH calmly and politely challenge it-and set a rule (for example, not minimising your job). Every time he breaks it, you demand an apology, or leave/hang up.
Wanting to see your son alone is fine if it suits you. It's the other stuff that's worrying.

You didn’t have to change this post, but fundamentally you don’t see, or I am going to say, understand the gravity of disrespect these in-laws are showing OP. This isn’t just a “they don’t get along type of thing. FIL is a big bully.
Your advice to her is pretty much to keep doing what she’s doing i.e. placate them, and the rest of us want her to get up from her knees.

Id be interested to know what the culture is in the country they live in.

Good grief! Definitely not unreasonable. You come as a package and I would be very concerned over how the conversation would go being your back. This is very different to grandparents saying can we take DGC out for the day to zoo/park/sea life etc to give you opportunity to have some couples time and us time with him. It sounds like your husband has been ruled with an iron rod over the years and they’ve made him totally submissive

Wow! For me they'd be told they'd see all three of us together, and that they'd better be polite or we'd be leaving. And as for tike allocation that's u0p to you (and your dh too) but I'd say a ststting point would be third the time with your family, a third with the PILs and the rest for just you, dh and ds.

Sorry but I’m not sure what is going on here. These people are toxic and if your wet lettuce or a husband can’t stand up to his dad treating you like utter crap, I’d be dropping him at their door for some one on one time and simply never picking him up. It is clear none of you should go as these people are not good role models for your son, no sure your husbands lack of principles are either though for that matter. Parents who can’t parent together and agree core boundaries, values and behaviours really should parent separately. Sending hugs for you though as this is dreadful OP.

FIL is not the boss of you OP. He can stamp his feet as much as he wants. What did he expect the result of his rudeness to be? He's driven you away.
Grandparents don't have rights over their grandchildren. Your husband should facilitate visits if he wants any, don't lift a finger for your FIL yourself. I wouldn't communicate with him at all. Refer him to your husband.
Where is your MIL in all this? Can she have a word?

Dear Fil, what a shame that because of your rudeness and nastiness towards me, you will miss out on seeing your grandchild this visit.
I will not be dictated to, by a man who has repeatedly disrespected me. I have absolutely no intention of dropping my vulnerable child to you and leaving him in your care, as this is not in his best interests.
Do not contact me again about this matter, unless you are willing to apologise for your behaviours.