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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to expect vegan guests to avoid preaching at shared meals?

414 replies

maxslice · 10/06/2026 05:01

I’m a flexitarian. Meaning I have a mostly plant focused diet. But if invited to, say, a work event or a wedding or to dinner at my oldest friend’s parents house, I’ll eat a lot of salad, potatoes, and bread. Maybe even a bit of their chicken or beef roast to not cause offense or awkwardness. So, that’s my choice. I have long term dear friends who are vegans. I respect that. But I want them to contribute an appropriate dish to share with everyone if it’s that’s so important to them. That said, I think they should just eat and shut up. Do what works for them and leave other people alone. Judging and preaching at
your host and other people is bad manners. No matter how passionate you are, there’s no need for that. You don’t persuade people by bullying them. Am I wrong?

OP posts:
KittyHigham · 11/06/2026 07:11

maxslice · 11/06/2026 05:10

Didn’t say vegetarian.
We’re plant forward, plant based. But adaptable when necessary. If you can’t understand that, I guess it’s no use to say “bite me.” But take it in the spirit in which it was said. And take the carrot out of your butt, that must be so uncomfortable and probably why you’re so cranky.

If you are asked to submit your dietary preferences ahead of an event, what option do you tick?
Because I'm wondering if its 'flexitarians' giving vegetarians and vegans a bad name. I.e. requesting veggie or vegan options but then eating some animal products.
It's clear from posts on here that this really pisses people off and is used by some as a gotcha against those who are actually vegetarian or vegan.

redboxer321 · 11/06/2026 07:35

ACynicalDad · 10/06/2026 20:42

At parkrun every week there are people in Vegan Runners tops, I just don't get it, eat what you like, don't need to make it your identity. It would be odd if I ran with a top saying I eat animals too. It's as if it's the only interesting thing about many vegans, that they're vegan, and it's not interesting.

They might wear them because people keep telling them how undernourished they are and how they must be lacking in energy and muscle mass.

OvernightBloats · 11/06/2026 07:38

KittyHigham · 11/06/2026 07:11

If you are asked to submit your dietary preferences ahead of an event, what option do you tick?
Because I'm wondering if its 'flexitarians' giving vegetarians and vegans a bad name. I.e. requesting veggie or vegan options but then eating some animal products.
It's clear from posts on here that this really pisses people off and is used by some as a gotcha against those who are actually vegetarian or vegan.

An option for flexitarian is not needed before an event because they are flexitarian!

Being flexitarian perfectly describes a way of eating which is mostly plant based vegetarian with the odd occasion where meat/fish is consumed. The majority of the diet is vegetarian.

I can't understand the frothing over this word! It is an excellent way to describe how some people eat and is a perfect description of the food eaten.

You don't have to be in one camp or the other! Times have moved on, how people eat has changed.

SquirrelMadness · 11/06/2026 08:21

maxslice · 11/06/2026 05:10

Didn’t say vegetarian.
We’re plant forward, plant based. But adaptable when necessary. If you can’t understand that, I guess it’s no use to say “bite me.” But take it in the spirit in which it was said. And take the carrot out of your butt, that must be so uncomfortable and probably why you’re so cranky.

If you're 'plant forward, plant based', why don't you cook a vegan meal when you have vegan guests? Why do you expect them to bring their own food? I would have thought you'd be really good at preparing plant-based meals that vegans, meat eaters and vegetarians alike can enjoy.

My omnivorous parents in law came for dinner recently. They enjoyed the vegan meal we cooked so much they asked for the recipe, and have even started experimenting with plant -based recipes themselves since! I'm surprised you're either unable or unwilling to similarly impress your guests with your favourite plant-based recipes, since you have so much experience with cooking them.

TipsyPeachSnake · 11/06/2026 08:28

maxslice · 11/06/2026 05:10

Didn’t say vegetarian.
We’re plant forward, plant based. But adaptable when necessary. If you can’t understand that, I guess it’s no use to say “bite me.” But take it in the spirit in which it was said. And take the carrot out of your butt, that must be so uncomfortable and probably why you’re so cranky.

Your posts are so confusing, unless this is deliberate to cause division.

How can you say you are plant forward, plant based but yet expect vegans to bring their own food if invited to dinner? Surely it would be easy for you to provide plant based dishes if you describe yourself as plant forward, plant based! This is a nonsensical thread.

PhaedraTwo · 11/06/2026 08:44

maxslice · 11/06/2026 05:10

Didn’t say vegetarian.
We’re plant forward, plant based. But adaptable when necessary. If you can’t understand that, I guess it’s no use to say “bite me.” But take it in the spirit in which it was said. And take the carrot out of your butt, that must be so uncomfortable and probably why you’re so cranky.

I think "deeply unpleasant" is a more accurate description for you.

Tontostitis · 11/06/2026 11:13

sweeneytoddsrazor · 10/06/2026 17:56

But it isn't a definitive word is it. So I invite someone to dinner and ask about dietary requirements. Flexitarian so what does that mean? You eat fish on a Friday a roast on Sunday and vegetarian the rest of the time? You eat meat all week apart from no meat Monday? You are vegan in January?

I would take flexitarian to mean happy to eat anything so wouldn't be averse to 100% Vegan but also happy with a Brazilian meat feast.

plantsandwich · 11/06/2026 11:18

KateSixer · 10/06/2026 12:16

Maybe it's just the vegans I know then. I agree that as a vegan you don't need to eat UPFs but some of the younger ones I know eat quite a lot of them.

And while I hear you on not killing animals unnecessarily (I have nothing against veggies) I struggle with why dairy products are seen as exploitative by vegans. So I have to come to the highly unscientific judgement that in some cases at least it is performative!

Perhaps I am mixing with the wrong sort of vegans!

Because the whole of the dairy industry is barbaric. Mammals have attachments to their babies as a rule (there are exceptions of course, but human mothers are often the exception as much as any other animal) and forcible impregnation is unethical. As is forcible removal of the baby--their cries are something I never want to hear again. The male calves are usually veal (dairy and meat industries align, they are not separate). Cows are impregnated again and again, then slaughtered. So we can sup on bovine neonate-intended milk, (which in itself, ethics totally out of the equation, a bloody weird thing to want to do). The animals in the dairy industry are treated appallingly. And I do not agree with the forcible breeding of animals for human satisfaction and tastebuds in any case.

A lot of young people eat UPFs. Most I would say in the Western world. The population of young vegans may well not be an exception, but to frown upon them rather than the meat eaters is a bit unfair.

plantsandwich · 11/06/2026 12:10

RampantIvy · 10/06/2026 12:54

Vitamin B12 is the only nutrient not found in a plant based diet.

Vitamin B12 is made by micro-organisms and is not produced by plants. Fortified foods and supplements are the only reliable sources of vitamin B12 for vegans. Be suspicious of any claims that this vitamin can be derived from plants.

From the Vegan Society web page.

You are probably getting your B12 from fortified foods such as plant milks, cereal or nutritional yeast.

Edited

Vitamin B12 is made by micro-organisms and is not produced by plants.

Largely caused by modern agriculture. A lot of it being producing plants for the meat industry. Deforestation is largely soy production, which (again) is down to feeding animals we eat for meat. Meat itself is often 'fortified' with B12 i.e put into food fed to animals because (yes you got it) it is no longer in plants.

plantsandwich · 11/06/2026 12:17

JohnnyFedora · 10/06/2026 13:09

So 25% end up being eaten by vegans...so they're contributing to the clearance 🤷‍♀️

I'm just saying if people are going to preach about morals and ethics they probably shouldn't be throwing stones.

Given that we're already here and cannot exist on fresh air, I would say that is a substantial effort. Veganism isn't about being evangelical, it is about the path of least harm. Also, that is a lazy 'statistic'. It isn't 25%. A lot of vegans actively avoid soy and the products it is in, for many reasons including deforestation and its link with hormones. A lot of vegans like to cook from scratch and are focused on health. But I won't split hairs. To add to this, soy consumed by humans (big surprise I am sure!) is not 'just' consumed by vegans. It is in a lot of meat products, bread, cereals, biscuits, canned soups, other grain based products, processed meat itself (shall I go on....).. Humans contribute to the suffering of other animals, as do most large mammals. We cannot do anything about that.

But there is a lot we can do something about. Just most people do not.

plantsandwich · 11/06/2026 12:23

NameChangeForTheWeek · 10/06/2026 13:19

When I was in a hostel making some dinner I found myself in the company of THREE other vegans. I was delighted! Ten minutes into the conversation it transpired one ate chocolate, one ate yoghurt and cheese and the other ate fish.

It was on the tip of my tongue to say "See lads, this is why people don't like us"

I have had this sort of thing too. We had a buffet at work and a new woman who I had not yet met was due to arrive. My manager said 'She's a vegan!' and I thought great!

She arrives and before coming over to us went straight to the buffet to pick up a cheese sandwich.

thestudio · 11/06/2026 12:39

plantsandwich · 11/06/2026 11:18

Because the whole of the dairy industry is barbaric. Mammals have attachments to their babies as a rule (there are exceptions of course, but human mothers are often the exception as much as any other animal) and forcible impregnation is unethical. As is forcible removal of the baby--their cries are something I never want to hear again. The male calves are usually veal (dairy and meat industries align, they are not separate). Cows are impregnated again and again, then slaughtered. So we can sup on bovine neonate-intended milk, (which in itself, ethics totally out of the equation, a bloody weird thing to want to do). The animals in the dairy industry are treated appallingly. And I do not agree with the forcible breeding of animals for human satisfaction and tastebuds in any case.

A lot of young people eat UPFs. Most I would say in the Western world. The population of young vegans may well not be an exception, but to frown upon them rather than the meat eaters is a bit unfair.

This - if I was forced, I would sooner eat meat than dairy.

At least meat animals get put out of their misery a bit sooner.

HelenaWaiting · 11/06/2026 12:44

maxslice · 10/06/2026 05:01

I’m a flexitarian. Meaning I have a mostly plant focused diet. But if invited to, say, a work event or a wedding or to dinner at my oldest friend’s parents house, I’ll eat a lot of salad, potatoes, and bread. Maybe even a bit of their chicken or beef roast to not cause offense or awkwardness. So, that’s my choice. I have long term dear friends who are vegans. I respect that. But I want them to contribute an appropriate dish to share with everyone if it’s that’s so important to them. That said, I think they should just eat and shut up. Do what works for them and leave other people alone. Judging and preaching at
your host and other people is bad manners. No matter how passionate you are, there’s no need for that. You don’t persuade people by bullying them. Am I wrong?

I'd be absolutely amazed if any vegetarians and vegans preach as much as meat eaters claim they do. I have vegetarian and vegan children. They only have to mention this - which is sometimes unavoidable - to be accused of preaching. And for the record, you're not an anythingarian. You eat meat.

thestudio · 11/06/2026 13:23

Just in case anyone can bear to look - cows have consciousness and experience intense grief when their babies are taken from them. This is from Google but all the sources are authoritative.

I honestly don't know how any of us who have had babies can bear the bit that I've itallicised.

Animals are conscious, and this awareness directly intensifies the trauma they experience. Because animals possess the neurological capacity for emotion and social attachment, separation from their babies is not a momentary stressor, but a profound emotional and physiological rupture. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

The Science of Animal Consciousness
There is broad scientific consensus that non-human animals—particularly mammals, birds, and even species like octopuses—are conscious. The landmark Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness confirmed that animals share the same neurological substrates required for conscious awareness and subjective experience. This means they are capable of experiencing love, grief, anxiety, and physical or emotional pain. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

How Consciousness Affects Trauma
The trauma a mother or baby experiences is directly correlated to this consciousness, as well as their cognitive ability to form attachments. 1]
The Maternal Bond: Mammals form deep, biologically regulated attachments with their young. The mother's scent, heartbeat, and vocalizations act as a regulatory system for the infant, and vice versa. Abruptly breaking this bond triggers a flood of stress hormones (like cortisol) and initiates a grief response rather than just a survival-based stress response. 1, 2]
The Cycle of Grief: Conscious animals—from primates and dolphins to domestic pets and livestock—are highly aware of the loss. They often exhibit behaviors akin to human mourning, such as frantically searching for the infant, refusing to eat, pacing, and vocalizing in distress. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Understanding Loss: Paradoxically, an animal's lack of complex human reasoning (like understanding why their baby was taken or where it went) can make the trauma worse. They are left with the persistent, unresolved confusion of a missing companion, leading to prolonged emotional distress. 1, 2, 3]

Long-Term Biological and Behavioral Consequences
Traumatic separation from a primary caregiver physically alters the brain and nervous system in both animals and humans. 1]
The Offspring: Research on animal models (such as macaques and rodents) shows that maternal separation impairs stress regulation, alters brain development, increases pain sensitivity, and can lead to anxiety, depression, and learning deficits lasting into adulthood. 1, 2, 3]
The Mother: Mothers also suffer severe long-term impacts. Studies on dairy cows, for example, show prolonged negative emotional states and significant physiological distress when separated from their calves. 1, 2, 3, 4]

Jaxhog · 11/06/2026 15:36

PhaedraTwo · 10/06/2026 12:28

Because vegans and vegetarians don't do that.Like other posters I've had countless "ooh, don't you eat mest/ don't you miss meat". It's tedious and thick - why do think I'm not eating meat?

I hate to tell you, but they do! Never heard anyone challenge a vegan or vegetarian, unless they started first with the 'you shouldn't eat meat' malarky.

Jaxhog · 11/06/2026 15:42

HelenaWaiting · 11/06/2026 12:44

I'd be absolutely amazed if any vegetarians and vegans preach as much as meat eaters claim they do. I have vegetarian and vegan children. They only have to mention this - which is sometimes unavoidable - to be accused of preaching. And for the record, you're not an anythingarian. You eat meat.

Then you must be pretty deaf or have some very rude friends. They absolutely do preach when I choose to eat a steak. I've even had the comments when eating eggs! Not to mention the 'you must be wrong, its good for you' when I mention that I'm allergic to celery so have avoid some veg soups and salads.

Its rude for ANYONE to comment on other people's eating habits.

PhaedraTwo · 11/06/2026 15:53

thestudio · 11/06/2026 13:23

Just in case anyone can bear to look - cows have consciousness and experience intense grief when their babies are taken from them. This is from Google but all the sources are authoritative.

I honestly don't know how any of us who have had babies can bear the bit that I've itallicised.

Animals are conscious, and this awareness directly intensifies the trauma they experience. Because animals possess the neurological capacity for emotion and social attachment, separation from their babies is not a momentary stressor, but a profound emotional and physiological rupture. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

The Science of Animal Consciousness
There is broad scientific consensus that non-human animals—particularly mammals, birds, and even species like octopuses—are conscious. The landmark Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness confirmed that animals share the same neurological substrates required for conscious awareness and subjective experience. This means they are capable of experiencing love, grief, anxiety, and physical or emotional pain. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

How Consciousness Affects Trauma
The trauma a mother or baby experiences is directly correlated to this consciousness, as well as their cognitive ability to form attachments. 1]
The Maternal Bond: Mammals form deep, biologically regulated attachments with their young. The mother's scent, heartbeat, and vocalizations act as a regulatory system for the infant, and vice versa. Abruptly breaking this bond triggers a flood of stress hormones (like cortisol) and initiates a grief response rather than just a survival-based stress response. 1, 2]
The Cycle of Grief: Conscious animals—from primates and dolphins to domestic pets and livestock—are highly aware of the loss. They often exhibit behaviors akin to human mourning, such as frantically searching for the infant, refusing to eat, pacing, and vocalizing in distress. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Understanding Loss: Paradoxically, an animal's lack of complex human reasoning (like understanding why their baby was taken or where it went) can make the trauma worse. They are left with the persistent, unresolved confusion of a missing companion, leading to prolonged emotional distress. 1, 2, 3]

Long-Term Biological and Behavioral Consequences
Traumatic separation from a primary caregiver physically alters the brain and nervous system in both animals and humans. 1]
The Offspring: Research on animal models (such as macaques and rodents) shows that maternal separation impairs stress regulation, alters brain development, increases pain sensitivity, and can lead to anxiety, depression, and learning deficits lasting into adulthood. 1, 2, 3]
The Mother: Mothers also suffer severe long-term impacts. Studies on dairy cows, for example, show prolonged negative emotional states and significant physiological distress when separated from their calves. 1, 2, 3, 4]

That's 100% true.

PhaedraTwo · 11/06/2026 15:56

thestudio · 11/06/2026 12:39

This - if I was forced, I would sooner eat meat than dairy.

At least meat animals get put out of their misery a bit sooner.

If you (you generally) are going to eat meat wild venison is the least cruel then farmed venison, lamb or mutton raised and slaughtered in the country you live in.

MasterBeth · 11/06/2026 15:58

Anyone who describes themselves as a flexitarian deserves to be preached at.

PhaedraTwo · 11/06/2026 15:58

plantsandwich · 11/06/2026 12:17

Given that we're already here and cannot exist on fresh air, I would say that is a substantial effort. Veganism isn't about being evangelical, it is about the path of least harm. Also, that is a lazy 'statistic'. It isn't 25%. A lot of vegans actively avoid soy and the products it is in, for many reasons including deforestation and its link with hormones. A lot of vegans like to cook from scratch and are focused on health. But I won't split hairs. To add to this, soy consumed by humans (big surprise I am sure!) is not 'just' consumed by vegans. It is in a lot of meat products, bread, cereals, biscuits, canned soups, other grain based products, processed meat itself (shall I go on....).. Humans contribute to the suffering of other animals, as do most large mammals. We cannot do anything about that.

But there is a lot we can do something about. Just most people do not.

A lot of vegans like to cook from scratch and are focused on health

About 90% of what I cook is vegetarian or vegan. I don't use soy at all.

MasterBeth · 11/06/2026 15:59

PhaedraTwo · 11/06/2026 15:53

That's 100% true.

Yeah, but also, they're just a cow

pinkyredrose · 11/06/2026 16:23

MasterBeth · 11/06/2026 15:59

Yeah, but also, they're just a cow

Just a cow? Hmm

thestudio · 11/06/2026 16:24

MasterBeth · 11/06/2026 15:59

Yeah, but also, they're just a cow

What does 'just' mean in this context?

The logical extension of that kind of critical reasoning (?) is that you'd also be happy with a situation where some humans who were at the bottom of a random power hierarchy also had their babies snatched at birth.

I actually do think that a dearth of critical reasoning skills is as much of a challenge as hypocrisy in getting people to face and understand the issues, both moral and ecological.

PhaedraTwo · 11/06/2026 16:27

pinkyredrose · 11/06/2026 16:23

Just a cow? Hmm

Yes what a vile comment.

HelenaWaiting · 11/06/2026 19:15

Jaxhog · 11/06/2026 15:42

Then you must be pretty deaf or have some very rude friends. They absolutely do preach when I choose to eat a steak. I've even had the comments when eating eggs! Not to mention the 'you must be wrong, its good for you' when I mention that I'm allergic to celery so have avoid some veg soups and salads.

Its rude for ANYONE to comment on other people's eating habits.

You do know that hearing impairment is a disability? Since when was it okay to use it as an insult? Do you use other disabilities as insults too? That's deeply unpleasant.