To not believe no dad is better

[NotConvincedd]

I often hear people say "no dad is better than a crap dad", and I'm not sure I completely agree.
What strikes me is that a lot of the people who say this then go on to explain that their child has an amazing stepdad who's raised them as his own. But that's not really the same as having no father figure at all, is it?
To be clear, I'm not talking about abusive fathers in those situations, no contact is obviously the better option. I'm thinking more about fathers who are unreliable, inconsistent, or just a bit rubbish.
My thoughts are that for many children, some sort of relationship is better than none. It's often said children who grow up with absent fathers tend to have worse outcomes overall, and most children seem to want a relationship with their parent, even if that parent isn't perfect. Being rejected or feeling unwanted can be incredibly painful and I think a lot of people are dismissive of how hurtful this can be.
AIBU to think that "no dad is better than a crap dad" is often too simplistic?

A child that is only shown 1 particular example of a (crap) parent, will only learn how to be like that example.

What is the purpose of this post OP? It seems like you are looking for everyone to agree with your decision/position on your own situation? The reality is everyone's situation is going to be different, depending on the circumstances and individuals involved, there's not a blanket stance which will apply to everyone. If you've made that decision in your own life, that's fine, own it - you don't need to get everyone to agree with you.

This is MN where any separated dad is the antichrist, deadbeat who doesn't pay his way. If he does, then hes known as the arsehole Disney dad where the mother has to do all the parenting and he has no idea...
I somehow don't dont think you're going to get an unbiased view here.

True, I think this website is very anti fathers well anti men in general. And because I think this way i must be a man 😅

So you’re annoyed at people generalising and saying ‘no father is better than a shit father’, but are yourself generalising and saying ‘a shit father is better than a no father’? When actually, it will entirely depend on the individual circumstances. My view is that an absent father and a shit father will both fuck up their kids in a variety of ways.

MN is definitely anti absent fathers and shit, unreliable fathers, yes.

No because when they are completely gone you can make up reasons for this to your kid and make up stories about how wonderful they were. When they see them albeit once in a blue moon and are constantly let down by them, you can't really explain it away.

Yeah you can say Dad is busy working? 🤷‍♀️ you can’t say that if they completely disappear because no one works all day every day.

Completely disagree, a father (or sperm donor) who is totally absent just isn't part of the family structure and it's much easier for kids to understand that their family is simply mum and them plus grandma or whoever else they have close. Whereas knowing a man exists, meeting him once or twice, and knowing he doesn't seem them regularly completely messes kids up. It makes no difference whether you tell the kid they're coming or not, as long as they've met that man and have an idea he is their "Dad" they will put 2+2 together themselves that this man doesn't care about them and often project the blame for it onto themselves.

If this is a genuine thread, why are you so adamant to prove those of us who lived through raising kids with absent/unreliable fathers wrong? If you think that your kid is going to be happy being messed around and writing letters to someone who may or may not respond, continue with your plan and then revisit in 10 years' time.

Only meeting them once or twice would be absent though, I mean a dad that maybe sees their kids once a month or every few months

My kids dad is absent I’m in this situation 🤷‍♀️ doesn’t it work both ways it’s also wrong to tell me they are better off without him when no one knows that

That's the type I meant tbh. A man who's ees their kids one a month or every few months is absolutely absent and the bar would be on the floor to say they aren't. I see nieces and nephews more than that!

I hear you @NotConvincedd no Dad is shit whether they are alive and a shit Dad or if they’ve passed. Many children end up grieving no Dad either way. I don’t think either/or can be better it isn’t possibly to say but they are both utterly shit.

You keep repeating this shite when it's total BS because kids don't remain toddlers forever and when the dad himself tells them "I'm coming on Saturday- we'll do xyz" then doesn't turn up and disappears for the next few months (or years in my case), it's not something the mother could have stopped!

Yeah exactly both are bad, absent isnt always the better option people think it is.

"Being rejected or feeling unwanted can be incredibly painful and I think a lot of people are dismissive of how hurtful this can be."

Your right, it is incredibly painful. You seem to forget that yourself when you use it to advocate for unreliable fathers. Children with unreliable fathers deal with the feeling of rejection and feeling unwanted over and over again when their father lets them down repeatedly.

I'm thinking more about fathers who are unreliable, inconsistent, or just a bit rubbish.

Not sure can see how dmaanging it is to DC peers and neice and nephew -people who swan in and out and let them down.

It's not always easy to not say Dad are expected - partly as they are often ones making promisies with no consulation of mother - and partly as sitting around waiting tends to be a tell and some kids can't handle sudden changes so do need to be told.

I think the problem with dads not being around it they can get romanticised or mums get balmed for the lack of contact - but the slow drip of constant let down or periods when they do make an effort and periods they don't is slow erosion or trust and often relies on other parent to deal with and patch the damage caused be the behavior all of which is often acknowledged. Newphew school behavior issues do seem linked with his dad picking him back up and then dropping him - it's impacting his education.

I think my xh did care enough in his own way, enough not to mess around with the children’s feelings when he was struggling with his own. I’m pretty sure his absence is partly because he trusted me to provide/ protect/ care/ nurture enough for 2 parents, partly for self protection as he realised he was right and partly because he realised any later attempt to come back into their lives would be for his own needs not theirs.

Difficult to say because some crap dads ruin their children’s self esteem and confidence. In ways being notoriously unreliable is a form of abuse, whether it’s conscious or not. Your child expects you to show, you don’t again and again… Of course that’s going to impact them. Also having one who drifts in and plays Disney dad then drifts out again on a whim is obviously going to affect them negatively too.

That said, there’s a lot of evidence about the necessity of a strong father figure in boys lives particularly but it does not have to be the biological father or even a relative.

About a year ago, Nephew was at our house for a family lunch. Came in to the lounge where the adults were sitting SUPER SUPER excited becuase he had managed to reach his dad on the phone (a rarity in his life) and his dad had said he'd take him away over the summer for a few days. He wanted his mum to speak to his dad, who was (apparently) still on the phone. SIL said she'd call him back later when she was home.

Neither SIL, nor nephew, heard from him again for almost 6 months. Was he punishing SIL for not taking the call? Was it all bullshit? Who knows. But I can assure you that DN doesn't take his father's unreliability with a pinch of salt. He gets super excited every single time, and super disappointed every single time.

I think people just tell themselves that. No absent dad is absent because he cares about his kids too much

But surely that’s what they’re saying? That in their opinion (which they’re of course entitled to), an absent dad is the least worst of 2 really shit options?

Ok, he’s just an arsehole

And I disagree