To not believe no dad is better

[NotConvincedd]

I often hear people say "no dad is better than a crap dad", and I'm not sure I completely agree.
What strikes me is that a lot of the people who say this then go on to explain that their child has an amazing stepdad who's raised them as his own. But that's not really the same as having no father figure at all, is it?
To be clear, I'm not talking about abusive fathers in those situations, no contact is obviously the better option. I'm thinking more about fathers who are unreliable, inconsistent, or just a bit rubbish.
My thoughts are that for many children, some sort of relationship is better than none. It's often said children who grow up with absent fathers tend to have worse outcomes overall, and most children seem to want a relationship with their parent, even if that parent isn't perfect. Being rejected or feeling unwanted can be incredibly painful and I think a lot of people are dismissive of how hurtful this can be.
AIBU to think that "no dad is better than a crap dad" is often too simplistic?

Personally I think kids need stability, knowing who “their people” are. A man who shows up for a few hours every few months and doesn’t do anything at all inbetween isn’t a dad, and a child doesn’t need to sit wondering where that person is for weeks on end, wondering when they will show up again.

Based on what logic though? You haven't said anything except you believe for some reason the kid will feel less abandoned by an inconsistent Dad despite people's lived experience that this messes children up a hell of a lot more than someone without a father around full stop. My dad died, it's been extremely hard but I understand and know why he's not in my life. Friends dads are alive and are shitty, unreliable and not there the way they should be and my friends seem much more effected by trying to process this into adulthood than I have wishing my dad were alive because still as adults they can't understand why their dad doesn't want to make the effort, because a part of their lives etc etc

My own kids logic thats why.

I actually agree with you op. My (now adult) children’s dad was emotionally abusive to them when they were young and we were divorcing. He’s still a shit parent (no interest) but I know if they were given the choice now whether to cut contact they would refuse.
They do have an amazing step dad but he isn’t their dad, he will always put his own children first.
My ex h does not deserve any relationship with my kids but that wouldn’t be what they wanted. They could have done that themselves.

People say these things to offer comfort, as in things are better as they are. Saying, yes you’re right isn’t going away change it, it might validate your feelings. Being honest is sometimes awkward for random people.!
Be honest with the children, acknowledging that dad is a selfish shit, he is immature but you cannot force him.
It is impossible to fill the void. You can only reassure them if you will always support them.

Obviously it depends how shit the dad is!

And there’s a sliding scale from the bottom end of “shit” into abusive.

There’s a line somewhere there (before you get out of the shit category and into abusive) where no dad at all becomes preferable.

And there’s the variable of how many other male relatives and family friends you have and how great they are!

How old are you kidding and what's their situation? You say their Dad is absent but do you mean they've never met him or he rarely sees him? If they genuinely think they would prefer to see this man irregularly rather than never, then they haven't made the logical conclusion that a man who wouldn't want to see them regularly isn't an asset. Unless you're going to drip feed that they're in their later teens , I'm not sure when we decided kids logically know what's best for themselves over their parent.

If you agree that feeling rejected & unwanted is harmful to children (and I do agree with that) can you not see that a man showing up every few months also makes you feel that way? Kids are not stupid, they see other people, they see other families, they know nobody is “working” every day for weeks and weeks on end all of the time.

Dad shows up for one good day, next day, week, month, child wants another day like that and… nothing. They feel rejected & unwanted anyway. A toxic cycle of getting their hopes up with one good day followed by weeks of disappointment.

Plus I teach my kids that when you love someone, when they matter, they make the effort. They show up. They prioritise you. That’s the outlook I want them going into adulthood and future relationships with so that they never accept the bare minimum from anyone. Not a chance I’d lie to my kids saying their dad is busy for months on end to protect his shitty behaviour, family and sharing DNA is not an excuse to be a shitty person.

The point is that children learn what a dad is from the man concerned. And they learn how relationships are from the relationships they see between the parents. Boys learn how men should behave to women, and girls learn what they should accept from men. So no, a crap dad is not better than no dad.

And that’s fine. You’re also entitled to your opinion. It doesn’t mean they’re wrong though.

He is back and wants to see them so that doesn’t apply to me im just shocked how many (women) feel dads should be shut out

That's really sad as you say they were emotionally abused from a young age so unsurprising that they're still holding on to the potential of a relationship with him, likely in a way they'll be able to fix it in a way they couldn't when they were children. I'm not sure them suffering the side effects of having an emotionally abusive parent is a good reason to agree with another child being affected in this way...

What do you mean by abusive though?
In my opinion I think a father who is (as you describe) inconsistent, unreliable, and rubbish is abusive and can do a lot of damage to a child without physically hurting them.
A child is much better off without a father who says he is going to visit but let's them down at the last minute or a father who plays with them one minute then sudden becomes impatient with them the next and shouts at them because they get bored and want to watch football on TV. A father who consistently shows the child they are not important or undermines a child's confidence and makes them think the have to earn their parents love is abusive and a child is going to be better without them in their lives.

Maybe because we've all seen countless women and children in our lives accept these men back only for them to sof off again because it's not actually about seeing the kids its about them controlling the situation and being able to click their fingers and swan back in when it suits them? And now we're seeing those children suffer the consequences and self esteem issues that came with that?

Ok, so let’s say your kids have an entirely absent father and they think it would be better to have him around, albeit he was unreliable and shit. How do they know that though, unless they’ve actually experienced both different scenarios?

They have

If the father is a danger to the child?

Well it would probably have saved a lot of time and arguing if you’d explained that earlier 😁. Your kids, having experienced both scenarios, prefer him being in their life to being absent. So that’s what you can tell people when they tell you it would be better off if he was absent!
That won’t be the same for all kids though. So just because people have a different opinion to you, it doesn’t mean that they’re wrong. Just like it doesn’t mean that you’re wrong to hold your opinion, based on your experiences.

No most women don’t want their exes around thats clear to see even if they’ve done nothing wrong

Neglect and emotional abuse are dangerous though. Being absent and unreliable is both of these imo. You sound like one of those mothers who wants to feel they're doing the right thing and doesn't want to feel in the future they denied their child a relationship with their father, however every one of these women I know IRL now regret it and one is even having to seek protection from the courts because this man hit their child (who he's met about 5 times in their life) because surprise surprise...you don't know this man! If he hardly sees the child he's effectively a stranger who is blood related.

How is not seeing their kid doing nothing wrong though? Have you ever considered dropping the kids somewhere for a few weeks/ months and years and not coming back...?

But my point is an inconsistent , or unreliable parent is a danger to the child because they scar them emotionally.

Exactly this. What does it teach kids about love, relationships if this is what they are exposed to right from childhood?

I couldn’t disagree with this more.

I don’t know a single woman who would deny a dad the chance to he in his children’s lives if he genuinely wanted to be there. Turning up once every few months for a few hours is not being a dad. It’s frankly a joke. It’s also teaching your kids right from day one to accept being last priority from someone who should love them- I don’t want any children growing up feeling like that because they’re going to either turn into really horrible partners who think love looks like putting someone last, or partners who accept the bare minimum from someone who should love them and stays with a bad partner way too long. Neither is healthy.

Ok but we are talking about safeguarding risks.