To not believe no dad is better

[NotConvincedd]

I often hear people say "no dad is better than a crap dad", and I'm not sure I completely agree.
What strikes me is that a lot of the people who say this then go on to explain that their child has an amazing stepdad who's raised them as his own. But that's not really the same as having no father figure at all, is it?
To be clear, I'm not talking about abusive fathers in those situations, no contact is obviously the better option. I'm thinking more about fathers who are unreliable, inconsistent, or just a bit rubbish.
My thoughts are that for many children, some sort of relationship is better than none. It's often said children who grow up with absent fathers tend to have worse outcomes overall, and most children seem to want a relationship with their parent, even if that parent isn't perfect. Being rejected or feeling unwanted can be incredibly painful and I think a lot of people are dismissive of how hurtful this can be.
AIBU to think that "no dad is better than a crap dad" is often too simplistic?

You are confusing the word "better" with "good".

Of course children with an absent parent suffer. It is NOT a good outcome for them to have no dad. There will be trauma, and emotion, and confusion that they will have to navigate, hopefully with the help of their mum.

But the suffering, and the ability to manage it, is, in most cases, likely to be easier and better than the suffering and ongoing pain they will feel with a father who is inconsistent, or unkind (but not abusive) or whatever.

The former allows the child to deal with that trauma and manage it and move on from it in a relatively consistent, straight(ish) line. The latter is a constant push-pull, confusion, hope-to-despair pattern that is very hard to navigate and deal with.

I tend to agree op.

It can be hard to come to terms with an inadequate father, but at the same time, kids gain something from knowing their father.

If he loves them, even if he is inadequate, they recieved thf live but see something important about the limits of just love.

If he's kind of a self centered twat, that's very hard, but I think what kids see is better than what they imagine, in that case. Because once they get to their teens most kids clearly see that they are not the problem, the twat is the problem.

If they have nothing to do with him, they can imagine dll sorts of inaccurate scenarios.

It’s not me that says it, it is the advice given on any thread I’ve seen about an unreliable father to not tell them when he is coming

Well thanks all ive took the comments on board but I will say it’s definitely not a one size fits all, my kids have been far more affected by having no father than an inconsistent one so it’s not always better when they go. Maybe if there is a great step dad in the picture so the loss doesn't feel as strong but not always the case.

Of course no Dad is better than an abusive Dad, same for a dangerous abusive mother, the longterm impact of bad parents far outweighs an absent parent.
It is no fault of the children, I’m sorry your children are suffering from their feckless father.

Well, it's not good advice. To suddenly and erratically spring unexpected visits/outings with Dad on children with no warning would be very destabilising for most.

Fathers need to stick to consistent schedules; if they can't and constantly fall through, then they shouldn't see the child. Children need emotional stability.

It will be completely dependent upon so many factors. What the dad is like, how often he comes and goes, what the mum is like as a single parent, whether there are other family members around.

My dad died when I was a toddler. I've spent many years wondering how my life may have been different. He sounds like a wonderful man, but he also had severe mental health problems and an active hars drug problem. Could my life have been better for him just being in it? Or could I have been exposed to things which would steer my life off course? There's simply no way of knowing.

What I do agree with is that is it helpful for children to have good male and female role models and support in their life. I didn't have any male figures in my life and I feel my life was poorer for that.

Everything you described - the inconsistency, the rejection and unreliability ARE forms of abuse - emotional and physical neglect don't need to be intentional but they have significant and long lasting impact on children.

A crap dad would be one who you see regularly but feeds you pot noodle every visit and shoved you on your tablet, forgets to pack up your stuff so you don't get it back until the next time you see them.

I would say if he's completely absent, you still need to do the work to help them deal with this. It's not like an absent dad is good. It's just LESS bad than one who breaks their hearts fresh every week/month/year.

OP don't base it on what other mums have said, base it on your children. Talk to them about it, and ask how it makes them feel. If they say it's nice to see their dad every few months that's fine. But if they find it unsettling because you can't give them advance notice, then tell your ex that. He needs to know if his behaviour impacts the children.

How do those threads deal with the fact that you may not tell them, but chances are their dad will?

I don’t know there was never really an explanation I guess it mainly works on younger kids that might not be so clued up on dates, but as kids get older anyway they will realise their father is unreliable and not take his complete word for everything mine took it with a pinch of salt when he said he was coming down

Well probably best not to take what other people say on threads as gospel, because it will entirely depend on the family and circumstances. For many families, just not telling them that their dad is coming isn’t going to work.

And as I said that works both ways, just saying no dad is better than a crap one won’t apply to all kids.

Yeah but I didn’t say that. I said it’s shit having no dad, and it’s shit having an unreliable dad. Both are shit.

And you think that’s better than say a sperm donor or a one night stand you can’t ever contact again?!

Can you imagine what this child is learning about relationships - about how it’s okay to let the people you love down, that that’s what it means to be ‘someone’s world’. It sets a low bar for what they’re going to accept in their future relationships.

and you still think this is preferable to him just letting go? death by a hundred cuts comes to mind.

I'm thinking more about fathers who are unreliable, inconsistent, or just a bit rubbish.
Being rejected or feeling unwanted can be incredibly painful and I think a lot of people are dismissive of how hurtful this can be.

You've said it yourself. Why would you want your child to feel unwanted by insisting they accept having an unreliable and inconsistent father around instead of none? You have underlying issues yourself OP if you genuinely believe rejection is an acceptable price to pay.

but that's not exactly healthy either. they're still internalising that they can't really rely on the people that are meant to love you unconditionally. that it's ok if you want to keep letting people down because they get over it. they'll also have had to either bottle up their feelings to come across as ambivalent but hurt inside each time it happens and not tell you, or close a pat of their heart off because the pain got so bad.

I can see why for some people one decisive abandonment is better than constantly picking at the scab of paternal love

Who's that advice given by? Interestingly courts and SS review contact after three let downs/lateness etc. That wasn't the case twenty years ago and it did harm to the child. It destroys the self esteem of the child. It shows the child that they can'tevrn trust their resident parent to have their back. It means there can never be plans made, because you've got to see if he turns up. Many children like plans, what do you do when the child wants to know when contact is, or what they are doing? What you are suggesting could start off anxiety. It came to a point that I/family wasn't booking stuff incase their father showed up, most of the time he didn't, so we had to call it a day. He then was consistent, couldn't hold back on his controlling nature, so now, the children 9&11 don't want to know him. You are completely ignoring how difficult it is to parent solo. The parent, who is solo parenting, is entitled to peace.

Yes I think it’s better to have some relationship with your father than none, when someone goes forever they are telling you they don’t want You, thats final, if people think kids dont end up with issues then they are lying to themselves. Even phone calls letters and emails would be better than nothing if someone can stick to reliable contact, thats better than someone basically saying you was totally unwanted

No dad can definitely be better than a crap one. I had a crap one. I would have been much better off with none. He died when I was 18 and I’ve not really missed him in my adult life. Thing is, if you have none, it’s hard to appreciate how much better that might be from having a shit one because how do you compare?

Btw, I also have a stepdad and he’s even worse than my biological dad. 😂

My daughter’s dad has given her the slow fade since we split up 8 years ago. He gradually reduced contact, started cancelling last minute, reducing the time he saw her if he did pick her up. He stood her up, cancelled holidays and generally made her miserable until January this year when he stopped contacting her altogether. She is 15 and has been far happier not dealing with him the last 6 months than dealing with him being shit for the last few years.

I’d basically rather say I had a crap dad that did care in his own way than I had no father and he abandoned me and didn’t care about me at all.

That's random advice on threads, that's not 'the advice'. Nor is it actually practical, given potential other plans/the need to prepare kids, logistically and for their own awareness.