To expect Sunday as the agreement -update

[TipJarTroubadours]

I'm not sure if anyone actually wants an update, but I was reading another thread where an update was promised and I was disappointed to find that there wasn't an update. Then I remembered I was just as bad. Although I did feel a bit bruised being compared to a rapist.

Link to original thread below but I've also copied the first post in the next reply as I hate clicking on links.

The. Question on the original was really

Am I being unreasonable to expect my nephew to do what he agreed to in return for accommodation?

Well we all met at my parents at Christmas, my mum who initially thought I was BU, didn't realise that he wasn't paying rent in return for attending Sunday Lunch and was then cross at me for giving things away for free.

My parents then offered to help pay towards accommodation with no strings, but said it would have to come out of his inheritance - my sister didn't want this so it was agreed he would attend after Christmas.

He attended for three weeks and then stopped. I told my sister but said he could live here rent free until the end of the first year but that he can not come back in September. I'm not sure she believes that we will follow through.

For the avoidance of doubt we are not religious, and I guess this is no longer really an AIBU, as I don't think we are.

This reminds me of Gilmore Girls and the grandparents expecting Friday night dinner after paying for school fees

Thanks for updating OP. I would be interested to know what happens over the summer once they realise you mean it.

I don't think I'd do what you have, but I see the philosophy behind it and I think it's quite sensible. I often see posts on MN when a mother is horrified that her children are treating her inconsequential and claims she taught them to be helpful by helping them out all the time, now they take her for granted, don't think to tidy up, certainly wouldn't think to offer a lift or cook a meal. And I wonder how on earth they didn't realise they need to coach them too, to provide clear expectations. This isn't quite the same, but offering accommodation in return for his presence at a family meal once a week seems both very generous and a great way to develop long standing family bonds - a legacy that would be good for him and you and your family. I can see why his presence there if he isn't interested in that would seem like it wasn't something you'd want to enable.

I think nothing in life is free. I think teaching young people this is dangerous.

Unless you’re you, of course, considering you enjoy thousands of pounds of rental income courtesy of a residential site of static caravans - which you own because you married a man who inherited them.

So some things in life are free for some people.

I agree if he accepted the crazy conditions he should stick to his word. But is there not a chance he thinks he’s putting you out by having you cater for him?

I have family members I adore who I visit and speak to all the time. We don’t, however, keep to a schedule and no matter how much I love them, I feel I would quickly tire of having to commit to spend time with them at the same time every week.

I will also decline their offer of coming to dinner, simply because I don’t want to inconvenience them. I would happily spend the same amount of time with them but I don’t want to put them through the trouble of preparing a meal for me in order to do so.

If he treated you to brunch on a Saturday morning instead, would you still have the same problem?

You mentioned in your original post that you and your husband had to attend a dinner with what sounds like your husband’s parents when thou were younger. This is understandable and completely different to the current situation because of the parent-child dynamic.

I think it would be more prudent to offer the free accommodation to close members of your family who you have a good relationship with in future.

Is it because of the timing? At uni, I dated a sportsman and Sunday evening was always 'relax after training and pub time'.
So, if he is involved in that lifestyle, giving up every Sunday evening of his uni experience may feel unfair.

Could you rotate the time? E.g. one week Sunday breakfast or brunch, the next week dinner?

I'd much rather get up earlier and have a brunch and perhaps others feel the same. If it was rotated between an earlier meal and a later one, those who want to do Sunday evening activities wouldn't be penalised.

Either you give someone free accommodation or you charge them rent. You don't give people free accommodation in return for forcing them to spend time with you every week. How very fucking odd. I love to see family for a catch up but to force it is not on. Do your parents always only give you things with conditions attached?

Your caravan was free, wasnt it?

You still havent explained the concept at the heart of this issue: the why of the dinner.

"Nothing in life is free" - okay, so there were loads of stipulations you could have added to this "contract". Aka...

You can live in the caravan for free and in exchange....

You do our garden once a month, or
You walk our dog once a week, or
You wash our car once a month, or
You cook us a family meal once a week, or
You help us with renovations when you can, or
You take our bins out when they need doing, or
You wash our windows once a season

Practical things that make sense.

But forcing attendance at a Sunday roast seems completely random.
What's the logic behind it? I mean that genuinely its not a rhetorical question.

A Sunday roast is meant to be joyous and relaxing.

But as a student, knowing every single Sunday is taken is mentally depressing. He can never be hungover, never go away for the weekend, never plan a Sunday day out (as roast is slap bang in middle of the day?).

Honestly just rent your bloody caravan out and make the money you can say you can make then, rather than hold a young person to ransom

I’m being a bit thick probably. Do you mean he’s about to finish first year of uni and hasn’t stuck to the agreement. Therefore he won’t have accommodation available from September for year 2? Is that right?

Is he expecting to return? Has he asked you to store any of his stuff?

I would be very careful with regards to him pretending he will stick to the rules for year 2, or even pay. I don’t think he will do either. I would make it a clear no return.

I remember the first thread, I thought you were being unreasonable then and I still think you are

I agree with pp who says it now feels like a battle of wills. I just don't see what you get out of insisting nephew eats with you every Sunday, when you know he doesn't want to be there.

You are holding someone to something they agreed to, that may have sounded manageable at first, but actually, when real life starts, as a young person that hopefully has their own friends and hobbies, they are now struggling to commit to. Its basically a forced attendance, and not going each week costs them a grand.

I adore both sides of our family, and happily spend time with them. I wouldn't want to be tied to a weekly meal though. And the thought that if I didn't go, I would be either asked to move out or pay the family thousands of pounds just feels weird.

You either want to fo favours for family, or you dont. And favours shouldn't come with strings attached.

Why not cheaper rent for family and friends? Why a forced meal. That would make me resent you as it feels controlling

Why not free accommodation but do a few hours on the reception once a week? Or 4 hours weekly gardening or cleaning? Or any other job that serves a purpose.

Would you not be willing to have a chat where you discuss that maybe the meal doesn't work for them but some other work would?

Is this not part of the plot of Gilmore Girls? Rich grandparents pay for school as long as daughter and granddaughter come for regular dinners

Because you’re forcing someone to eat dinner with you who doesn’t enjoy your company. It is weird.

why am I the weird one?

May I also say that if you don’t enforce this with nephew then that’s very unfair on the other relatives who DO turn up to the dinner every week.

Why the rule is a bit odd, it’s hardly onerous and a very small price to pay for free accommodation so I’m with you OP.

Maybe you need to change the rules. He gets to stay for free and keep his toes if he attends the dinners, or you'll remove one toe for every dinner he misses.

Tell me you've not got kids in uni accommodation without telling me...

My DC pays over £220 a week for a single room in halls with close to a thousand other kids. Daylight robbery. A grand a month for a whole caravan would be fantastic value. And OP's nephew isn't paying a penny. Cheeky fucker. The least he can do is go for a free, proper, healthy lunch once a week!

This is weirdly controlling.

Thanks for the update OP, I remember
your previous thread.

Interesting how polarising this is, I’m shocked at
how many responses think YABU.

Your rule and set up doesn’t seem odd to me - it reminds me of communal living; where a certain amount of community participation is expected to live there. It’s not for everyone, and if it’s not for your nephew that’s fine - but he will need to leave and find alternative accommodation.

It doesn’t really matter if anyone thinks the rule is batshit. This young man agreed to it and has benefited hugely from OPs generosity.

He didn’t keep to his side of the bargain. I probably would have evicted him long ago.

I don't think this is that weird.
You want me to provide your accomodation whilst you are at school, the least you can do is take say 4 hours out of your week to spend some time with us as a thank you.
This is not forced you do not have to live here, it might help the ones who are struggling to think of it as rent. The rent for one week is 4 hours of your time. If you can't afford this then find another place to rent for next year.

Imagine if you were lending someone your car, they have their own set of keys, and every day they just pick it up and drop it back without a word to you. It feels a bit rude, does it not. Like you are good enough to provide this for them but not good enough to interract with

I actually agree with you. Everyone knew the payment for living rent free is Sunday dinner attendance. It’s about respect and acknowledgement. So he’s done well to get away with it all this time but won’t be continuing to live there in September. Unless he agrees to actually paying rent? I suspect he’ll say this but never pay it though.

Agree with the "this is very odd"

Why would you want to have dinner with someone who is only there for free rent?

I think k your rule is extremely odd. The more you told me I had to attend, the less I would want to.
Give the accommodation freely, or don't give it.

The point is that you need proximity in order to build relationships. It doesn't sound as if he doesn't like OP, just that he can't be bothered.

OP you still are not answering the question so many are asking - and perhaps it’s because you aren’t able to verbalise it yourself - why is it sunday lunch that you set as the task to be completed for free accommodation?

If you said there was a list of chores to be completed each month for free accommodation, or say when you go away for a holiday they have to run the caravan park, Or they had to commit to doing so many voluntary hours with local charities, or something similar, I don’t think anyone would say you were being unreasonable to insist on that being completed for your free accommodation.

The question is, why does his attendance at lunch equate to £1k’s worth of free accommodation? Why is lunch a chore to be completed? Why is this the thing you want in exchange for free housing.

You keep answering like the question is “why do you insist on the terms being met and why do you impose a term onto the free housing?” But that’s not what we’re asking, we are asking, “why this term, what do you gain from its completion?” (If you asked him to do gardening, you’d gain the free time of not having to do it yourself or gain back the money from not having to pay a gardener, we just can’t see what you gain for the lunches, you actually end up losing even more because it takes you more money to buy the ingredients and more time to cook a bigger meal.)

so the question - why is this the condition, not should you impose a condition. What do you gain from its completion that you have lost by not having it completed. (And would you consider an alternative condition/chore, if not, why is lunch so valuable for you?)

The other thing the OP has dodged was on the other thread people asked if she’d be willing to change which day the compulsory meal was, so if nephew had a job or sports on Sundays, would she accept say a regular Wednesday night dinner for a catch up. Seems she only wants the big Sunday lunch table.

Oh come on. A bit of social time isn't and unteasonable expectation. And if he doesn't want to spend time with OP, then he can find other accommodation.