To expect Sunday as the agreement -update

[TipJarTroubadours]

I'm not sure if anyone actually wants an update, but I was reading another thread where an update was promised and I was disappointed to find that there wasn't an update. Then I remembered I was just as bad. Although I did feel a bit bruised being compared to a rapist.

Link to original thread below but I've also copied the first post in the next reply as I hate clicking on links.

The. Question on the original was really

Am I being unreasonable to expect my nephew to do what he agreed to in return for accommodation?

Well we all met at my parents at Christmas, my mum who initially thought I was BU, didn't realise that he wasn't paying rent in return for attending Sunday Lunch and was then cross at me for giving things away for free.

My parents then offered to help pay towards accommodation with no strings, but said it would have to come out of his inheritance - my sister didn't want this so it was agreed he would attend after Christmas.

He attended for three weeks and then stopped. I told my sister but said he could live here rent free until the end of the first year but that he can not come back in September. I'm not sure she believes that we will follow through.

For the avoidance of doubt we are not religious, and I guess this is no longer really an AIBU, as I don't think we are.

Even if you think it's weird, the point is that nephew freely signed up to it, has taken advantage of the free accommodation and hasn't held up his end of the bargain. It's totally irrelevant what condition was placed on the free accommodation - he didn't have a gun held to his head, he wasn't homeless and being coerced into this, his gps offered to find rent but he'd rather save his inheritance. He just cba and believes his aunt should put up with his rudeness!

People need to do the things they agree to do, unless there's a genuine change in circumstances which prohibits this.

Bizarre rule, especially fixing it to one day - very limiting and verging on controlling for young adults but if he agreed to it then that’s that

And I would agree with you when it comes to immediate family, but kids of friends, or more distant family is an entirely different proposition and this ‘mandatory’ thing is very uncomfortable. Even in the good old days, family got together because they wanted to, but because they’d be punished or have to surrender a family benefit if they didn’t.

But it is an absolutely bonkers crazy suggestion in the first place.

I must be missing something as I've read all of OPs post and I still don't understand.

It's not unreasonable to expect something in return...like help mow the lawns, put the bins out - but to force someone to eat with you it's weird.

I don't think it' s crazy. The best thing about becoming an adult is that you can do what you want and you don't have to do what your parents (or other members of your wider family) say you have to do.

Personally I am very careful to make sure that my adult child's interactions with me are a matter of choice and don't come from that uncomfortable place of fear/obligation/guilt that my parents put on me. I take pleasure from the fact that his life is his own and when he sees me it is his choice.

I can understand why your nephew saw the choice you gave him as rationally the right choice. But emotionally he didn't want to do it. And the emotional choice won, I guess.

Reading this thread, I can see why there are so many entitled relatives around!

I can't believe that someone thinks "As family you can live in my property for free, just turn up for the family meal once a week" is unreasonable!

But it’s not just once a week it’s a set day every single week - one of only 2 weekend days. Really restrictive for a young adult making their way. What about friendships, what about work - with it being lunch doenst really allow for anything significant before or after, and they are doing it out of duty for really big reward, not because they actually want to!

Pretty sure OP said it's early eveing rather than lunch. And the OP has said more than once there's flexibility for big events, holidays and so on.

But that aside, think back. Sunday always used to be church, family, community. A bonding day to your wider group outside your everyday commitments. Are you sure replacing any obligation outside a young person's own desires is a good thing, both for society and indeed for the young person themself?

Connections matter. People who don't realise that and don't bother to make an effort for other people look back in later life and wonder why they do not seem to have as many people to lean on.

If I was at university and my aunt offered me accommodation in exchange for either rent money or a weekly ballet performance wearing black bin liners fashioned into a tutu, danced to a selection of old time musical songs while narrating the meaning of the dance moves in a German accent, and I would pick one of those two choices (that’s a lie, I’d pick the dance) and I’d be fucking grateful for the opportunity to not pay cash.

They would never have watched a dance performed with so much enthusiasm.

Question for those who don’t understand this situation, what would you have done if you were the aunt? What do you think would have been a better approach?

If you read all of OP's posts in the initial thread (you can do this with one click) she has addressed these very points several times.

But clearly this is just going to be a post-for-post re-run of the first thread as people much prefer posting their opinions than seeking answers that are already there!

The answer is obvious; those of us who don't understand would never have set that weird condition to start with! If I had spare accommodation for a niece or nephew I would either charge them rent or let them live in it for free depending on my financial situation. I extend invitations to the young adult members of my family based on things I think they'd like to do - if I know they have a particular interest I might suggest an event/concert/poetry reading/whatever. And on the odd occasion I want to ask them over for a meal then yes that's lovely but it's never an obligation and I would hate to sit at the table thinking they are there under sufferance.

I guess charging her student nephew 10k (I think she mentioned 10k in one of her posts) for the year would have been better.

Next question - when your nephew failed to pay a penny, what would you have done?

I think you are thinking about it backwards.

The offer is made to friends and family.
OP and her DH clearly think being "family" means more than just having a paper relationship, it means having an actual personal relationship.

If a person considers attending a regular family meal a "sufferance" then IMO he isn't really family, just someone who happens to have a paper connection.

Honestly, whatever arrangements I made for renting accommodation to family, obliging them to socialise with me would never come into it. My only point is that I would never offer accommodation in exchange for someone's presence at a weekly meal because that's really weird and I wouldn't like the experience of eating with someone who didn't want to eat with me. That's it! That's all!

I am not and have never been a landlady to anyone so how I would decide what rent to charge or what to do with non-paying tenants is totally hypothetical and completely irrelevant. The only comment I have on this entire thing is that I cannot personally see the appeal of forcing someone to attend Sunday dinner with me every week under any circumstances. I wouldn't like to be the hostess in that situation, it makes me uncomfortable to think about it.

But she's not forcing them to eat with her under any circumstances. OP has been quite clear ( in the previous thread ) that she doesn't mind if they have something else on.

Would you really feel comfortable offering up free accommodation to someone who didn't care to sprnd time with you?

I would never offer accommodation in exchange for someone's presence at a weekly meal because that's really weird

I cannot personally see the appeal of forcing someone to attend Sunday dinner with me every week under any circumstances

In reply to the top quote, he had the option to pay rent.

In answer to the bottom quote, he had the option to pay rent.

So, when your nephew failed to pay his rent as he said he would, like a normal person would, like his grandparents offered to do, what would you do? Would you sit there and say ‘well it was a really weird request, fancy me imagining that to have a weekly meal with my nephew might have been a good thing!’? Or would you think ‘aww poor like bubba’ or would you think something else? Because all I can see right now is he is a shit nephew. A really shit nephew. Doesn’t want to chat with his aunt, doesn’t want to eat with his aunt and uncle, doesn’t want to join a family meal, doesn’t want to pay up for all the free accommodation he’s received, doesn’t want to do anything really.

And all people keep bleating on about is ‘but whyyyyyyy do you want him to eat with you, you’re so so so weird OP’.

Anyway it’s been wonderful chatting, I’m now reverting to the paying rent option because I’ve lost my appetite for responding to people. Bit like the nephew really. Except he didn’t pay rent.

There’s a difference between “not wanting to spend time with you” and “not wanting to turn up to a large group meal every week”.

In OP’s situation I wouldn’t have offered free accommodation unless it was someone I already had a good relationship with. And I don’t put conditions on my relationships - he’d have been offered a standing relationship to the weekly meals, but with no expectations. If he didn’t ever turn up, I’d arrange another mutually convenient time to see him.

I mean, he agreed so he should keep to the agreement, it’s not something that was dropped on him without notice - but I still think OP’s condition is weird and a bit controlling.

But you do put conditions on your relationships - or if you don't, you really need to work on your boundaries. It's usually just not so clearly stated.

If he'd come to OP and said "hey, Sunday evening doesn't work for me, can I do a bit of gardening with you instead?" it sounds as if OP would be quite open to that. But he hasn't.

He's not interested in a family relationship with her, so why should she persue one with him?

This is one of those threads that I read and just cannot understand how some people think.

The OP has done something extremely generous, and in return she wants to develop a closer relationship with her nephew. With the extent of the favour he should be falling over himself to cultivate this relationship.

Why would she bestow such a big financial gift on someone who displays no interest in her? Yes it might be transactional ultimately but that is how relationships work. She is not his parent. It’s incredibly rude on his part!

Those of you who have said a variation of ‘I don’t set boundaries on my relationships’, of course you do! If you spent a lot of time and effort on a present for a friend and they seemed ungrateful, would you do it again? Do you spend time, money and effort on people who aren’t interested in you?

If you do, then you are the one ‘outside the norm’ in that scenario, not the OP.

@WinnieWilbur
Agreed! I will also add that it is an unusual arrangement, because it's quite unusual to be able to offer free accommodation to a group of young relatives. People are interpreting like it's a rental with strangers, a standard aunt / nephew relationship, or him living in her home. It's none of those things, so the usual rules don't apply. OP has had to think outside the box.

Of course his life is his own! If he didn't have choices, you would be correct but he has a number of choices:

• agreeing to the arrangement with OP and attending the Sunday meal (most of the time as OP would be fine for him to miss attending occasionally)
• having the same arrangements as non-family members and paying rent for the caravan
• moving out and paying rent somewhere else

Surely adulthood means not always getting your own way and making compromises. OP has allowed him to renege on their agreement until the end of the summer term, while still allowing him to live rent free. He now has the summer vacation to find somewhere else to live.

It's definitely an unusual arrangement but the terms and conditions aren't onerous and living rent free as a University student is a massive privilege for which he seems to be completely ungrateful.

This is like Gilmore girls I love it.

I think it's reasonable....

You are all seem very keen on him having some kind of moral learnings here.

He probably already made a compromise - he probably wanted to go into halls with all his peers but his Mum made him go and stay in his aunt's stupid caravan. So having compromised on that he damned if he was going to turn up for the mandated meal every week, He's probably glad he's getting chucked out so now he can live with his mates next year.

Personally I can't think of anything worse then being 18 and living in your aunty's caravan when all your friends are having wild parties in halls. The parties, the laughs, the sex, the booze and the drugs you'd miss out on! Now I am not saying any of this is very sensible. I am just saying I can understand where he's coming from and he's got the rest of his life to be sensible..

Personally I can't think of anything worse then being 18 and living in your aunty's caravan when all your friends are having wild parties in halls. The parties, the laughs, the sex, the booze and the drugs you'd miss out on! Now I am not saying any of this is very sensible. I am just saying I can understand where he's coming from and he's got the rest of his life to be sensible..

Then you wouldn't choose this in the first place, would you?

You can laugh and have sex in a caravan, by the way.... I've even had alcohol in one!